'09 OUTLOOK - 3.6 VVT DI - RE-REFINED DINO OIL

[COCOATAN09XR]

Hi,

NEWBIE here. Been an occasional lurker. Recently purchased an '09 Saturn Outlook with GM's new direct injection, variable valve timing V-6. A very sweet ride. There are many threads on the LAMBDA forums (Outlook, Acadia, Enclave and Traverse) on oil life, fuel dilution and sludge buildup.

I initially decided to change the factory fill oil early (did so at 672 miles at the dealer). Ran that oil change for 1,756 miles and had that oil pulled and analyzed by Blackstone. Filters are ACPF48. The dealership uses Lyden Oil Company's ProGuard ECO Motor Oils. Never heard of them but here is their website with some lengthy data. Turns out this is re-refined dinosaur oil. Specific oil is their 5W30. Scroll down on this link.

http://www.lydenoil.com/mainpages/productinfosheets/ProGuard ECO Motor Oils.pdf

Realize this initial oil analysis is of my oil with only 1,756 miles on her and; therefore, would reflect lower #s then the Universal Average of data on this DI V-6 which is 4,800 miles.

Was planning on running this current oil to 5,000 miles (my Outlook has 4,000 miles on her now) then changing it to MOBIL 1 full synthetic (just based on the many users commenting in the LAMBDA forums). This vehicle has the oil life monitor system and I would note the life % at the time of change. Oh, the oil life monitor read 87% remaining life at the time of the 1,756 mile oil change.

Frankly, I am curious to know if anyone else out here has had good experience (read this longer oil change intervals) with re-refined dino oil?

Here's my initial oil analysis from Blackstone:

Sorry if this image is kinda' small. First attempt on doing this here.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Steve S]

The wear numbers will drop as the engine breaks in and the breakin crud gets drained out with the oil changes. Everything seems ok. The oil visc dropped from a 30 to a 20 which happens.The M1 is better.

 

[Familyguy]

Didn't GM have a problem with the initial batch of DI 3.6L engines snapping cams?

Where are you going to get it serviced after Saturn goes away for good?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Didn't GM have a problem with the initial batch of DI 3.6L engines snapping cams?

Where are you going to get it serviced after Saturn goes away for good?


Any Government Motors stealership.

They will take his money just as well as anyone.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Didn't GM have a problem with the initial batch of DI 3.6L engines snapping cams?

Where are you going to get it serviced after Saturn goes away for good?


Any Government Motors stealership.

They will take his money just as well as anyone.


Perhaps on paper, but in real life? A good friend foolishly bought an Aura a few months ago. Since then, every Saturn dealer that's within a reasonable distance from his home has closed. He had a warranty issue recently and took it to the local Chevy dealer since the closest Saturn dealer is now about 2 hours away. The Chevy dealer said they won't do any warranty repairs on his 4 month old Saturn and that he should "talk to Saturn" about where to bring his vehicle for warranty work.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Familyguy

Perhaps on paper, but in real life? A good friend foolishly bought an Aura a few months ago. Since then, every Saturn dealer that's within a reasonable distance from his home has closed. He had a warranty issue recently and took it to the local Chevy dealer since the closest Saturn dealer is now about 2 hours away. The Chevy dealer said they won't do any warranty repairs on his 4 month old Saturn and that he should "talk to Saturn" about where to bring his vehicle for warranty work.


Sad.

Same issue here. The local Saturn place closed a year ago so 60+ miles to the nearest one for my Dad and his 05 Vue. Now they are going belly up so the closest Chevy stealership is about 25 miles away but I'd stay away from him so its another 15 miles to the next one.

Hopefully they will/can work on it. The Honda dealer will work on the motor thankfully.

The resale of Saturn has gone so poor they are cheap. Co-worker bought a ION with only 28k miles for $3,500 and its clean. A Corolla or Civic in same condition and miles would be closer to $10k.

Lucky for him it has the excellent Eotech motor!

Bill

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

Sad.

Same issue here. The local Saturn place closed a year ago so 60+ miles to the nearest one for my Dad and his 05 Vue. Now they are going belly up so the closest Chevy stealership is about 25 miles away but I'd stay away from him so its another 15 miles to the next one.

Hopefully they will/can work on it. The Honda dealer will work on the motor thankfully.

The resale of Saturn has gone so poor they are cheap. Co-worker bought a ION with only 28k miles for $3,500 and its clean. A Corolla or Civic in same condition and miles would be closer to $10k.

Lucky for him it has the excellent Eotech motor!

Bill


If I was in the market for a used SUV, I'd consider a Honda powered VUE, but I wouldn't touch any other Saturn with a 10 foot pole with so much uncertainty in the air about future service and parts availability. I really feel for people who purchased in the last year or so. The depreciation hit as Saturn circles the drain must be huge.

 

[GimpyMR2]

I went to the last Saturn dealer in the region thinking they'd be giving away Sky Redlines, no such luck. Thus they have about 10-11 of them on the lot still.

 

[COCOATAN09XR]

Yup, KBB trade in value on my 4 month old Saturn Outlook as compared to a GMC Acadia (pretty much the same vehicle visually) is a $6,000 hit differential. It's a good thing I didn't buy it to trade it. I'm in it for the long haul.

It truly is right and tight for me. Weighing just under 5,000 lbs, this loaded Lambda platform can carry 8 friendly people or tow 5,200 lbs. For this size vehicle, I'm getting 16.5 to 17.5 around town. Last highway trip I was pulling 25.5 mpg. Not too shabby in my book.

Anyhoo, back on point. Anybody here heard of re-refined dino oil and had any experience using it?

Thanks guys.

Regards,

Jim

On service after the sale and Saturn dealer going away, government motors HAS to stand behind the warranty and will point me to the nearest GMC dealer for service

 

[Bryanccfshr]

You have nothing to fear from rerefined oil. It is as good as any otherSM GF4 oil.

 

[Ross]

I too have an 09 outlook. Bought last June when they gave me the rebates plus and additional $5,000 from my gm card points.

I have no regrets. I have 4,000 miles on mine and have change the oil only once since new. I will do an UOA next month.

I talke to my local GMC dealer two months ago, and they said they could do any service for me. The Saturn dealer is next door and is currently changing over to a Kia dealer.

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
You have nothing to fear from rerefined oil. It is as good as any otherSM GF4 oil.


+1

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Ross
The Saturn dealer is next door and is currently changing over to a Kia dealer.


I think that's sad.

I read that several 100 million gals of used motor oil gets re-refined at specialized plants. I assume it is just as good as refined oil. The article said there was no measurable difference in purity. I wondered if re-refined oil has to be labeled as such, or if some of it could be mixed with refined oil and sold wihout being labeled re-refined?

 

[COCOATAN09XR]

Steve S,

Thanks for the insight on the this initial oil analysis. I was thinking the same as far as metals that are showing up falling off as I put more miles on her. I've seen a lot of favorable print here on the M1 filter by Mobil.

Bryanccfshr,

Thanks for your positive comment on the re-refined oil. Didn't think a dealership would use this type of oil unless it was just as good, or better, than original dino oil.

Regards,

Jim

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Familyguy

Perhaps on paper, but in real life? A good friend foolishly bought an Aura a few months ago. Since then, every Saturn dealer that's within a reasonable distance from his home has closed. He had a warranty issue recently and took it to the local Chevy dealer since the closest Saturn dealer is now about 2 hours away. The Chevy dealer said they won't do any warranty repairs on his 4 month old Saturn and that he should "talk to Saturn" about where to bring his vehicle for warranty work.


Sad.

Same issue here. The local Saturn place closed a year ago so 60+ miles to the nearest one for my Dad and his 05 Vue. Now they are going belly up so the closest Chevy stealership is about 25 miles away but I'd stay away from him so its another 15 miles to the next one.

Hopefully they will/can work on it. The Honda dealer will work on the motor thankfully.

The resale of Saturn has gone so poor they are cheap. Co-worker bought a ION with only 28k miles for $3,500 and its clean. A Corolla or Civic in same condition and miles would be closer to $10k.

Lucky for him it has the excellent Eotech motor!

Bill

The engine is great, too bad the rest of the car is not.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
You have nothing to fear from rerefined oil. It is as good as any otherSM GF4 oil.


Finally someone that's talking about the UOA.

Man these engines slash the oil something fierce. That's 1750 with 87% left and it's already south of the 30 range.

Someone has to have the stones to run it out to 20% so we can see what it looks like.

By these numbers one would expect that he'd be in 10 range by 50% or so ..not that it would necessarily mean a problem for the engine.

 

[edhackett]

As good as any other SM GF4 oil... not a very high bar to meet IMHO.

These engines seem to be harder on the oil than average. If I owned one, I would be looking at an oil that has been shown to stand up well to fuel dilution. Rotella T 10W-30 being an example.

Ed

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
These engines seem to be harder on the oil than average. If I owned one, I would be looking at an oil that has been shown to stand up well to fuel dilution. Rotella T 10W-30 being an example.


I think that is what one can choose to focus on when choosing another oil to try on this engine i.e an oil that stands up better in the presence of gasoline. But I thought that is one of the strenghts of RLI.

 

[edhackett]

Products from Renewable Lubricants Inc. yes, the generic, re-refined oil used for this UOA, no. They are NOT the same.

The UOA's from this vehicle and others with this engine show, to me, that this engine is not a candidate for extended drains with any oil. Again, if it were mine I would be using a XW-30 HDEO changed at not much more than 50% of the OLM. That is assuming that I planned on keeping the vehicle for 100K+ miles.

Ed

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Products from Renewable Lubricants Inc. yes, the generic, re-refined oil used for this UOA, no. They are NOT the same.


My mistake as there is another Lambda vehicle with multiple UOAs posted very recently using RLI. I got them mixed up.