'08 BMW 328xi, Castrol EDGE 5W30, 10.4k mi OCI

[grumpyoldman]

2008 BMW 328xi, Castrol EDGE 5W30 (full synthetic but not BMW LL-01 approved)
10,400 mi on oil & filter (Wix)
Previous OCI was about 13,000 mi (Mobil1 0W40 Euro formula, BMW filter). Before that 10,500 mi (BMW/Castrol 5W30). Before that I didn't own the car. Oils were LL-01 approved.

My driving style is pretty tame: light to moderate acceleration, shift @ 3500-4500 RPM, occasionally 5500-6000 (redline 7000), rarely wide open throttle. Six speed manual tranny. Pretty even mix of city & highway. Condition-based service (oil life monitor) tells me to change oil every 2 years and 15k to 25k miles (no typo: it said 25,000 this last time).

My conclusions are
- The way I drive is easy on oil; my long OCIs seem to be fine for me
- The LL-01 approved oil really does last longer than the non (based on the higher TBN of the 2014 sample)
- Even though the CBS says I can go 25k miles, pushing it past 12k is probably a bad idea

Anyway, here's a report from someone who likes to push long oil change intervals. Thoughts?

BTW, the first sentence in the report refers to how I sampled the oil: as it first came out of the pan instead of their recommendation of waiting until it's flowed a while. Despite their wording, the engine wasn't cold.

 

[Bluestream]

I wouldn't be going 25K but 12K is reasonable. Does this engine have a timing chain or belt?

I would go back to the LL-01 just for peace of mind

 

[grumpyoldman]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I wouldn't be going 25K but 12K is reasonable. Does this engine have a timing chain or belt?

I would go back to the LL-01 just for peace of mind


I think it's a chain (or chains), part of the BMW VANOS system (which I don't understand).

I did indeed go back to LL-01 oil this time (Castrol EDGE 0W40). Apparently Mobil1 0W40 Euro Formula lost its approval last year.

 

[MCompact]

It's a chain; the last BMW engine sold in the US with a timing belt was the M20 "small" six. VANOS simply retards or advances the camshafts relative to the crankshaft.

 

[zeng]

Good metal wear rates.
Used oil in serviceable condition.
Your driving style could probably push beyond OCI as recommended by BStone.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Looks real good. Not sure what the VOA TBN is, but I would just use 10K as the OCI as I'm in the one third of TBN camp, not the 1 will do camp that Blackstone like.
If you are in the 1 is OK TBN camp, then think about using a major brand idle use oil flush just before the oil & filter change.

 

[umungus1122]

Excellent report. Imagine that, 10k on a non-LL-01 oil and your engine didn't grind itself apart....

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Excellent report. Imagine that, 10k on a non-LL-01 oil and your engine didn't grind itself apart....

Exactly, but you should still change the FF at 1000 for safety...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: grumpyoldman
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I wouldn't be going 25K but 12K is reasonable. Does this engine have a timing chain or belt?

I would go back to the LL-01 just for peace of mind


I think it's a chain (or chains), part of the BMW VANOS system (which I don't understand).

I did indeed go back to LL-01 oil this time (Castrol EDGE 0W40). Apparently Mobil1 0W40 Euro Formula lost its approval last year.


Keep going man, let us know when your VANOS dies.
LL-01 is not spec. due to high TBN. TBN in LL-01 might be same as this oil, or lower or bit higher. It is NOACK, HTHS.
This Edge has NOACK of max 15%, LL-01 is 1at max. 13%, but for example Castrol 0W40 is at 9.1% (bcs it meets MB229.5, so needs to be eblow 10%), Castrol 0W30 NOACK is 8.3%. So you PCV system is taking a lot of carbon, as well as valves and manifold.
HTHS of LL-01 is 3.5cp for a reason not related to OCI.
9.74cst? I would not put that oil in my Honda power washer.

 

[CharlieBauer]

3 times less wear on unapproved, fake synthetic, EPA and CAFE mandated thin API oil, compared to Euro manufacturer branded approved full of protective goodness thick Euro oil.

You were obvously not driving the vehicle how it was designed to be driven!

 

[grumpyoldman]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
3 times less wear on unapproved, fake synthetic, EPA and CAFE mandated thin API oil, compared to Euro manufacturer branded approved full of protective goodness thick Euro oil.

You were obvously not driving the vehicle how it was designed to be driven!


Sad but true. I drive this thing easier than my old Honda Civic, which I really I have to wind up to get any power. Said Civic, by the way, has over 202k miles, most of its life on dinosaur oil with 6k mile OCIs.

From what I've learned on BITOG, reading other articles, and 35 years of driving my own vehicles, there are definitely superior oils out there. However, I don't think I need any of them because I drive like a grandma (except my sportbike, which gets a lot more TLC regarding oil).

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Excellent report. Imagine that, 10k on a non-LL-01 oil and your engine didn't grind itself apart....

Exactly, but you should still change the FF at 1000 for safety...

Only dump a FF if you can get the exact same approved oil, otherwise it can invalidate the warranty.

In general terms if you do not have any issues like a bad injector or iffy HG, never dump a FF before the max interval. It results in higher wear due to loss of the higher Moly content in the approved oil, OR Moly from assembly oils and greases.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm very surprised. I thought it would be full of Iron, Lead, Aluminum, and Copper.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: grumpyoldman
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
3 times less wear on unapproved, fake synthetic, EPA and CAFE mandated thin API oil, compared to Euro manufacturer branded approved full of protective goodness thick Euro oil.

You were obvously not driving the vehicle how it was designed to be driven!


Sad but true. I drive this thing easier than my old Honda Civic, which I really I have to wind up to get any power. Said Civic, by the way, has over 202k miles, most of its life on dinosaur oil with 6k mile OCIs.

From what I've learned on BITOG, reading other articles, and 35 years of driving my own vehicles, there are definitely superior oils out there. However, I don't think I need any of them because I drive like a grandma (except my sportbike, which gets a lot more TLC regarding oil).

All that being said, but 0W40 Castrol, which is LL-01 is $25 in Wal Mart.

 

[CharlieBauer]

What would LL01 Castrol 0w40 do that LL01 Castrol 5w30 didn't do?

Don't forget, all things being equal, we're told that 5w30 is better than 0w40.

 

[grumpyoldman]

edyvw, I did put in the exact oil you mentioned, Castrol 0W40 LL-01, right after this report.

CharlieBauer, the Castrol 5W30 is not LL01 approved.

But this discussion has me thinking. Like you (CharlieB) said earlier, the wear metals are all significantly lower using the non LL-01 oil, which has a lot lower viscosity (9.7 vs. 12.0) than the LL-01 oil used in the 2014 report. It makes me think the "crummy" oil is actually better for my driving style--easy, no track days. Yes, the recent (awesome) video from the Redline executive pointed out that the BMW VANOS relies on oil pressure so don't use something too thin, but he was specifically referring to track days. That doesn't apply to me at all. In fact, he went on to state that at the track he convinces guys to drop to lower weights (to 50 or even 40) to keep oil temperature in an optimum range. I wonder if that's what's going on in my case: 30 works better than 40.

I've seen oil reports where guys show high metal content with higher performance racing-type oils, then switch to something supposedly worse and get less metal. Here's one thread where the owner switched from Redline to Mobil1 and saw lead levels drop significantly.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4264235/1

And here's the Redline video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLMfUz34R0

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted By: grumpyoldman

CharlieBauer, the Castrol 5W30 is not LL01 approved.


Sorry, I was referring to the BMW Castrol 5w30.

 

[Artem]

I'm sorry but 25k miles even on the proper oil spec is madness, based on the two UOA shown. It would be interesting to see but I'm sure the oil would have thickened badly and excess wear and tear would be evident. Sure the block would survive a few oil changes worth while under warranty but after that, you'd be on your own with a sludged up engine. I think BMW thinks too highly of themselves and clearly doesn't care to provide the customer with a car that will last for many years to come. They clearly want you back in the show room buying a NEW CAR ASAP hence the crazy long intervals.

No way am I buying a used Bimmer. Thanks for the heads up.

I saw you stick to 10k. You could stretch to 12 and possibly 15k if there's more easy highway use but I wouldn't push it, if it was mine and I intended to keep it a while.

 

[MCompact]

My son's 2009 328i calls for oil changes at @15k mile intervals. It's still running strong(using BMW synthetic 5W-30) at 100k miles.

 

[B320i]

The standard interval on BMW was 15K, 25K would have to be very "ideal" conditions, such as lengthy highway cruises. The servicing algorithm on these is fuel-based, plus some sort of conductivity sensor.

I've seen little reference to 25K intervals on BITOG for these, so its very interesting that the the system will take it to 25K...