07 Sprinter, AMSoil 5w40 Euro, 11.8k mi (48k veh)

[folzag]

First time UOA. Appears good to me. Anything notable?

I feel like I got my money's worth for this oil change. I also feel pretty safe going 2 full years and upto 14k, though I'll probably do one more OCI at 12k to confirm the data point. Plus I switched to M1 0w40, so I'd like to do an apples-apples on it vs. AMSOil as much as is possible.

Code:


ALLAN: No, you shouldn't have any problems leaving the oil in use for a year or

two. Even three or four years shouldn't be a problem, if the engine starts to see

even less use. Averages are based on about 7,600 miles on the oil, so you've run

this oil a little longer than average. Iron and copper are a bit elevated, but

certainly nothing too surprising turned up here, considering your longer run. The

viscosity was just a little low, but that's not a major concern. No contamination

was found and the TBN was fine at 1.9 (1.0 is considered low). Nice. Try up to

13,000 miles.



Sample Date 8/20/14

Make Up Oil 0.5 qt (Castrol GTX 0w40 conv)

Univ Avg

ALUMINUM 5 4

CHROMIUM 1 1

IRON 32 28

COPPER 13 7

LEAD 2 1

TIN 0 1

MOLYBDENUM 16 74

NICKEL 0 1

MANGANESE 1 3

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0

POTASSIUM 0 3

BORON 53 98

SILICON 11 9

SODIUM 7 18

CALCIUM 1634 2257

MAGNESIUM 18 62

PHOSPHORUS 702 840

ZINC 861 969

BARIUM 0 0



Values Should Be*

SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 63.0 65-78

cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 11.06 11.6-15.3

Flashpoint in °F 405 >375

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0

Water % 0.0
Insolubles % 0.2
TBN 1.9 >1.0

 

[Quattro Pete]

Nice, although it dropped to a 30-grade. Is that the MB engine in this Sprinter? Wife has the 3.0 version of this engine in her C300. Here is how M1 0w-40 did in it after 11K miles, if you're curious:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3168551#Post3168551

 

[drtyler]

Which Amsoil Euro 5w40 did you use -- mid or full SAPS?

 

[R80RS]

Nice report. Even at 48k your engine could still be breaking in a little, so I think Blackstone's advice to not worry about the Fe & Cu levels is valid. Looks like you used the Amsoil mid-SAPS AFL 5w-40, is that correct?

 

[folzag]

Yes, it's a Mercedes engine, the M272. Fortunately, it's with the redesigned balance shaft. Thanks for the link to your C300's UOA.

On the oil, I'm not 100% certain, but this was spring 2013 and I'm pretty sure at the time I think "Euro" meant low SAPS. I think they've since changed the nomenclature to go to mid-SAPS and low-SAPS instead of whatever it was and "Euro." In any case, I do know it would have been one that meets the MB229.51 spec since the shop services a lot of diesel Sprinters and they used the oil they had on hand.

I did have a question on when an oil drops grade. How is one determining that? I assume from the 210 deg viscosity? Is there a place that maps the measurements to viscosities? The other viscosity measure is at 100 deg, that's not the "W" weight is it? I though the W weight was measured at 0 deg C.

Aside from how it's measured I suppose I wouldn't be too surprised if it's sheared down a grade. I've made a half dozen or so loaded trips up the mountains and high desert of eastern Oregon and Washington. From what I've seen indicated on other threads, that's probably why MB specs a 40 grade for these long OCI's, so it's still a 30 grade by drain time.

 

[folzag]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
Nice report. Even at 48k your engine could still be breaking in a little, so I think Blackstone's advice to not worry about the Fe & Cu levels is valid. Looks like you used the Amsoil mid-SAPS AFL 5w-40, is that correct?


Fe is totally in line or better if you add 50% for the extra mileage.
Cu I noticed as well and even adjusted for the extra mileage seems high. Not too worried, I'm sure it's within a std dev of typical, but will be something to watch.

Thanks.

 

[folzag]

Well, I stand corrected on the SAPS. I went over to the AMSOil site to double-checked and the 5w40 is only a mid-SAPS. The low-SAPS is a 5w30. The invoice stated 5w40, so I have no doubt as to the weight.

I also noticed AMSOil has a 5w40 for diesel engines. I think it's likely I got that instead of the 5w40 Euro, but I can't be certain. The invoice only stated the make and weight.

 

[folzag]

Sorry for drawing this out, but looking at the TBN, I'd have to guess it's the Euro after all. About the only difference between the two models of oil seems to be the starting TBN, 8.0 for the Euro vs 10.4 for the diesel.

Since I ended somewhat low at 1.9, compared to a number of other 10k UOA's I've seen on M1 0w40 (also 10+ TBN IIRC), I'd think I'm probably starting lower, which would point to the 8.0.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: folzag
Sorry for drawing this out, but looking at the TBN, I'd have to guess it's the Euro after all. About the only difference between the two models of oil seems to be the starting TBN, 8.0 for the Euro vs 10.4 for the diesel.

Amsoil has two different 5w-40 Euro oils: mid SAPS and full SAPS:
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/european/

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: folzag
Is there a place that maps the measurements to viscosities?

Yes, it's called the SAE J300 table.

http://www.widman.biz/English/Tables/J300.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/


Quote:
The other viscosity measure is at 100 deg,

100 C is exactly the same temperature as 210F. They are just two different measuring units: cSt vs SUS.

 

[Pablo]

Looking at the elementals this is AFL 5W-40. Which is the Mid SAPS as others here have surmised. This oil starts at 14 cSt. and a drop to 11 at 12K+ miles is pretty typical for this type of oil.

Does this Sprinter have oil cooler or copper in the oil lines/fittings?

Where and how did you buy the oil? In Portland as a PC you could have just ordered on line and picked up at the Amsoil DC.

 

[folzag]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
100 C is exactly the same temperature as 210F. They are just two different measuring units: cSt vs SUS.

Well, that is embarrassing.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Amsoil has two different 5w-40 Euro oils: mid SAPS and full SAPS:

That is embarrassing too!

I looked right at them but was fixated on low vs. mid, and mid vs high just didn't register somehow.

Also, thanks for clearing things up for me with the J300 tables.


Originally Posted By: Pablo
Where and how did you buy the oil?

I took it to Upscale Auto in Tualatin. I think AMSOil is their shop standard. Not sure how they decided between mid & full SAPS. Obviously there's no DPF, so I don't need 229.51 spec oil, 229.5 is fine.

Oh yeah, no oil cooler. It's completely stock. The oil plug washer fell into the drain pan, it's copper.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: folzag
I did have a question on when an oil drops grade. How is one determining that? I assume from the 210 deg viscosity? Is there a place that maps the measurements to viscosities? The other viscosity measure is at 100 deg, that's not the "W" weight is it? I though the W weight was measured at 0 deg C.


The W grades are measured at temperatures between -40C for a 0W, and -15C for a 25W.

The 30 grade of high temperature viscosity runs from 9.3 to 12.5 centistokes, and the 40 grade runs from 12.5 to 16.3 centistokes. Since your viscosity started out in the 14's, it was a 40 grade when new, but since the UOA measured the viscosity at 11.0, it sheared down to 30 during use.

What kind of rpm's does the engine turn on the highway?

 

[folzag]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
The W grades are measured at temperatures between -40C for a 0W, and -15C for a 25W.

Thanks. Yes, that's what I realized after spending some quality time with the J300 tables.

IMO, the W specs are a little confusing to make an opinion from given there are two moving parts, both the temp and the viscosity measure. And they are both well below "normal" for most of the US. -40C? How about a month of daily starts at -10 to 0C, what then? Or a at most 6 starts per year at -10 and the better part of three months at ~10-15C?


Originally Posted By: A_Harman
The 30 grade of high temperature viscosity runs from 9.3 to 12.5 centistokes, and the 40 grade runs from 12.5 to 16.3 centistokes. Since your viscosity started out in the 14's, it was a 40 grade when new, but since the UOA measured the viscosity at 11.0, it sheared down to 30 during use.

What kind of rpm's does the engine turn on the highway?

About 3000 +/- 200. I forget exactly, but I think 2800 is about 60mph and 3200 is about 70mph. I usually drive 60-65mph and almost never at 70 or beyond.

 

[datech]

Is your sig correct, it's a 3.5L gas engine? I thought they were all diesel.

 

[folzag]

Yep, it's gas. That's why I put it in asterix.

Apparently they made a few. No idea why. I got this one because it was lingering unwanted on the dealer's lot, and he made me an offer I couldn't refuse.