'07 Honda Civic DX 5-spd man. trans. oil

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K_McIntosh

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Jan 25, 2019
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Tsawwassen, B.C., Canada
Hey all ... earlier today, I searched here for Honda Manual Transmission Fluid / Part No. 08798-9031C to see if I could determine the viscosity / source supplier.

Based on my online reading thus far, t would seem the Honda MTF is a Castrol product with a GL-4 viscosity of 75W-80 ...

I've changed out the trans. oil 18~ months ago but saw no appreciable improvement in 'notchy' / stubborn 1st gear synchro performance (I think the previous owner learned to shift with this relatively low-klick car [149,000 kms]) ... the shiftability into 1st (even at a standstill, after going into neutral and releasing the clutch while waiting for a traffic light) seems to improve only once everything is all warmed up, but Canadian winter mornings means that ain't happenin' for the first part of any given trip ... annoying at best, embarrasing at worst ... when I can't get it to take 1st gear once the light changes to green ...

I am thinking of running Red Line MTL along with an additive called MICRO 3 Manual Transmission Treatment, Part No. 9300 ... anyone think of (a) reason(s) not to do so?

Thanks in advance for any input offered.

K_Mc
 
Maybe try RP Synchromax? It's pretty thin, made my BMW shift easier especially in cold. My mechanic likes thicker stuff and that's what's in there now after a clutch job.
 
Running Amsoil Synchromesh in mine. Really smooths things out.. Have used Pennzoil Synchromesh in the past with great results also.
 
Use what Amsoil says or motor oil. That's why you have tough shifting those thick gear lubes are completely wrong. I had older Hondas and they called for motor oil, and the shift was smooth as butter. Or spring for the Honda mtf. How often is it changed anyway.
 
To add, there are misconceptions about Honda mtf, you can use any good 10w 30 motor oil, so it's very easy. I would change it several times to dilute whatever is in there out. Then use Honda mtf or the Amsoil. Gear oil is no good for these.
 
RP Synchromax will probably work good. A lot of Honda people like GM Synchromesh and Pennzoil Synchromesh as well.

You can also use 5/10w30 motor oil. An HDEO or motorcycle oil might work ok, too. Rotella T5 10w30
 
Motor oil used to be a recommendation for Honda manual transmissions, but it was kind of a compromise and a based on what a typical API SF/SG motor oil used to be. From what I understand, there were some that just weren't very good at it. One claim is that high ZDDP levels (allowed at the time) could provide enough wear protection and a typical mineral motor oil was good enough at synchro engagement.. Also they had 30K mile recommended change intervals. Back when I had my Integra I decided to use Red Line MTL, which was designed for that purpose where motor oil was previously recommended.

The strange thing about their recommendations were that they were always one generation behind the current gasoline motor oil spec. But obviously they found that newer motor oils were inadequate because they were never really meant to go into manual transmissions. Most motor oil was "good enough" for that purpose back when API SF motor oil the current standard common. It was always kind of a kludge that Honda, Saab, or whoever else spec'ed motor oil for manual transmissions. I believe Honda now recommends their MTF for all manual transmissions where motor oil used to be the spec.
 
Go with Amsoil or Redline's recommendations. From my experience with Hondas and Acuras, I found the Amsoil sometimes worked better and the Redline sometimes worked better. I can't explain it but I lived it.

Pick one and run it 25k and swap out and run the other. You will know which works better for your car. Go with the RL first and don't add anything to it.

If you have the financial resources, just run one a few thousand miles and then swap out and try the other.
 
Wow ... enthusiastic bunch here!

Thank you all for all the Replies ... I was having trouble logging in to my new account here for a bit ... then, for some reason, I was not being notified of new Replies ...even though I am ostensibly following my own thread ...

Anyways, I am going outside to put new (eng. &) trans. oil in the car this morning ... for trans. oil, I will go with a U.S. quart (946ml) of Red Line MTL, the 16 U.S. fl. oz.(473ml) bottle of MICRO 3 MTT (Gebo, I know you say to initially go with RL MTL only, however, getting the car lifted and doing work at my location is enough of a hassle that I will opt to just double-down to address these notchy shifting issues ... and ... hopefully get it all over with in one fell swoop), then a little bit of Honda MTF (to top off) ... that I had left over from last time ... Farnsworth, at this juncture, I will have 27,400 kms [odo. reads 149,303 kms now] on the (pure) Honda MTF that's (been) in there (since 27SEP16 / 121903 kms - changed out for the first time by me at that point).

I'll get back to this thread with a test / performance report.

K_Mc
 
BTW, is Red Line MTL about the colour of ATF?
And does anyone know how to decode the production numbers on the bottles?
I have:
68192, 11544-004165 (purchased 25JAN19),
58111, 7384-001477 &
57106, 6895-002840
I found older inventory in my garage ... any problem using old, unused inventory?
Thanks, K_Mc
 
Originally Posted by K_McIntosh
BTW, is Red Line MTL about the colour of ATF?
And does anyone know how to decode the production numbers on the bottles?
I have:
68192, 11544-004165 (purchased 25JAN19),
58111, 7384-001477 &
57106, 6895-002840
I found older inventory in my garage ... any problem using old, unused inventory?
Thanks, K_Mc

It's dyed red. I've also used their 75w90NS and that has a dark amber shade that I would expect from gear oil.

As for the supplier of Honda MTF, I would think it would depend on where. Honda is like any large multinational automaker in that they have multiple sources.

I've been thinking of getting a new Honda Civic Si since my WRX is getting a bit old and I'm about ready for a new car. I figure I don't really need AWD given my typical driving. Their manufacturing and parts are sourced all over the globe. At least in my area I've looked at the vehicle stickers and the final assembly point is typically Indiana or Alliston, Ontario, the engines are listed as made in the US, and the transmission from India. But for the Civic Type R, the final assembly point is always Swindon, England, the engine made in the US, and the transmission from either the US or Japan.
 
So, I tested the car and the transmission shifting characteristics (following the trans. oil change) yesterday evening ... there seems to be a marked improvement ...

... time will tell ... I want to see how it does in colder weather on my commute into town ... Greater Vancouver (Canada) is expecting some unusually low (for here) temps in the next few days (as low as 21°F in the wee hours of Tuesday night, the 05/06FEB19), so, that will give me a better idea of how successful I've been with the aforementioned strategy of Red Line MTL with the MICRO 3 additive. A Red Line Technical Service rep. by the name of Dave told me the MTL product has no shelf life considerations but he was not enthusiastic about me adding the MICRO 3 ... he cautioned me that it could prove to make the trans. oil too slippery and the necessary friction for the synchros to work properly would be diminished or absent ... we'll see.

I wish those Honda engineers would have provisioned for a trans. oil filler from the topside of the engine bay ... the re-filling part of the job is a hassle for a DIY'er using a 1 L pump bottle ... kinda' messy ...

I'll post back with any significant observations re: shifting.

Thanks for all the help guys.

K_Mc
 
So ... we've had temps down as low as 17.2°F (last night, overnight, Tuesday, 05/06FEB19, in Tsawwassen, B.C., Canada) ... after I got the frost off the windshield this morning at around 0950PST, with the car warming up the whole time, I figured this would be a good cold shiftability test for my new trans. oil concoction ... tranny definitely not happy about the colder conditions ... I had to wait several seconds for each and every shift down into 1st or 2nd initially ... I was hoping for better performance, however, in the more favourable temperature conditions imm. following the trans. oil change last week, I was getting noticably better shiftability, so, it is what it is ... for the time being anyways ... K_Mc
 
Originally Posted by K_McIntosh
So ... we've had temps down as low as 17.2°F (last night, overnight, Tuesday, 05/06FEB19, in Tsawwassen, B.C., Canada) ... after I got the frost off the windshield this morning at around 0950PST, with the car warming up the whole time, I figured this would be a good cold shiftability test for my new trans. oil concoction ... tranny definitely not happy about the colder conditions ... I had to wait several seconds for each and every shift down into 1st or 2nd initially ... I was hoping for better performance, however, in the more favourable temperature conditions imm. following the trans. oil change last week, I was getting noticably better shiftability, so, it is what it is ... for the time being anyways ... K_Mc

In that case Red Line MTL might be a good choice. I don't think I ever took it anywhere below freezing. I might have taken my WRX with Red Line 75W90NS in freezing temps, although I'm not sure if I switched it out with Motul Gear 300 by then.

I thought it almost never gets that cold around there. The last time I was in Tsawwassen it was maybe for an hour at the ferry terminal. Thought of maybe making a quick trip to Point Roberts, but didn't have enough time.
 
y_p_w ... yah, 17.2°F is as bad as its' been ... so far ... quite unusual for here, next to the warm Pacific Ocean and all ... suitable fodder for the climate change deniers, I guess ... Bullwinkle007 ... yah, R.L. MTL seems to be good for this trans.' shiftability issues ... next time I'll use it only ... w/o the MICRO 3 additive ... I actually had some leftover MTL inventory (I was putting it in a [Suzuki Swift /] Pontiac Firefly that had similar shifting issues) that I used up ... f'n stuff is $22.55CAD (taxes in) a U.S. qt. up here ... ($16.99USD, based on Friday [08FEB19]'s B. of C. daily average exchange rate of 1.3270CAD [per 1USD]) ... and ya' kinda gotta' get two bottles ... every other time anyways ...

... say, just an afterthought ... has anyone here devised a trans. oil re-filling procedure / custom fabbed part(s) / special funnel for re-filling the trans. from above (open hood, engine bay side ... looks like a lot of stuff in the way ... perhaps not as bad to access from above as it looks at first glance?) ... my 1L (ex-gear oil, Mercruiser?) bottle with vertical manual pump wants to come apart on me alot and is messy as f&#@! ... plus, depending on vehicle level, fore and aft, side to side (I'm on four ramps on my lawn where it aint' that level), the newly introduced oil tends to want to follow the outside of the plastic tubing back out of the filler hole (and onto me and my surroundings) ... aside from the mess, it's giving a misleading indication of the trans. being full of oil when it is not ... capacity is said to be 1.5 U.S. qt. /1.4L ... that's what I'm going by ... moreso than the textbook approach of a properly lifted, level vehicle where one can stand below and get a good indication of the oil level relative to the open filler hole ...

Thanks, K_Mc
 
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I don't know exactly what happened to them, but there was this great Red Line retailer in my area called Vic Hubbard Auto Parts. Back when I was using MTL in the late 90s it was literally $6 (US) per quart. I was also getting full-sized bottles of SI-1 for $3.60 when other parts stores were selling it for $9. It was kind of an odd place, but they had great prices and they didn't have exotic lubricants behind the counter. In fact they had a section in their last store called "Oil Alley" where they literally had almost all the major (and some minor) American brands with many of the oddball racing oils. You wanted Mobil 1 Racing? They had it. Almost anything Amsoil? Had that too. Some oddball weight of Pennzoil yellow bottle that Walmart didn't have? That too.
 
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