Hey guys, I just got an '04 Honda Odyssey (3.5l V6). The owners manual recommends easy driving for the first 600 miles for break-in and to not do the first oil change until 3750 miles (severe schedule). Should I do the first change at 600 or 3750 miles? Also, should I use 5w20 as the manual states or something else? Thanks.
'04 Odyssey oil?
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This topic has come up several times before, if you search you'll see all the pro's & cons of the argument. I'd rather play it safe and change it.
Whether you use 5w-20 or 5w-30 or 0w-30 is up to you. However, I strongly suggest changing the oil no later than 1000 miles. Look for UOAs from my 04 Saturn Vue with the same Honda V6 3.5L in the UOA section on this board. I wish I did a sample of the factory fill, but hindsight is 20/20.
The only difference with the Honda factory fill is the high amount of moly. Otherwise, it's regular oil. Just drain it and put an oil in with a good dose of moly, Pennzoil or the Chevron/Havoline 5w-20 both have that. This way, the factory gets what it wants: a "Break-in" oil with high moly, and you get what you want: all the factory crud out of the motor. These V6's leech alot of copper. Getting it out of there is a good idea.
And then you can rest at night safe and sound. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
I'm on the opposite end, I'd leave it in for 3K then dump it. Honda has always used a butt-load of moly on all their brand new engines, their must be a reason and you know Honda engines...they are good motors. I wouldn't mess with success. As far as the next oil...I'd go synthetic M1 5W-30, it's just about like a high 20 weight and better protection. If your like me, you'll probably keep this van until the cows come home and won't really enjoy it until you pay it off, so you'll want this thing to last. Staying with a good synthetic really won't costs that much more, you can run the OCI to at least 5K and it'll keep that engine super clean.
Is it proven that the Honda factory fill is loaded with moly or is that moly coming from the assembly lube. I vote with TNS on changing out sooner and using a good oil with lots of moly. I have a friend with a 2004 Element and he had the dealer change the factory oil out at 1,000 miles. They had no problem doing so and he's been having them do the oil changes using whatever oil they use. He has 20,000 miles and it runs like a champ and he uses no oil between changes. To me it's more important to get the manufacturing crud out sooner than later.
Whimsey
I have an 03 Civic EX and 03 Accord LX 2.4L. I did it both ways and judging by the latest oil analyses of the two cars, it didn't matter.
On the Civic, I changed the first oil out at 1900 miles, followed by a 3000 mi OCI and finally settling at my goal of 5000. The analysis of the 5000 (oil in use from 5000-10000 mi) was excellent. Search my username in the UOA section for results.
On the Accord, I waited until 3700 miles for the first oil change, followed by OCIs of 3900, 3000 (changed early because of a long roadtrip upcoming), and 4200 miles. The analyses of the 3900 and 4200 mi intervals both showed excellent wear rates, etc. These results are also in the UOA section.
I say leave it in until when the owner's manual recommends changing it (3750 miles). It's definitely a "special" oil, and I agree with Schmoe... Honda won't steer you wrong.
With regards to the oil that you should use, use either 5W-20 or 5W-30. Honda started recommending 5W-20 on the same cars that previously they recommended 5W-30... with no engine changes whatsoever. 5W-20 will get you marginally better gas mileage.
Personally, I'd say stick with 5W-20.
I know this is an ongoing, never ending debate amongst us brethren here, but I would NOT put the 5W-20 in that engine. Especially in your climate. I'd go with a good 5W-30, such as M1. That oil has proven over and over without a doubt, one of the best performers consistently. I've used that in my 02 Accord and have been pleased with the UOA results. Spend the extra bucks, run the OCI to about 5 to 6K and you can't go wrong.
quote:The only thing that's been proved is that the posters who persist in the notion that Honda uses some magical, mysterious, and otherwise generally unavailable high molybdenum content factory-fill motor oil are not about to acknowledge the possibility that the high molybdenum content in a 1st UOA might just be from the assembly lube that's liberally slathered on moving parts during engine build. To my way of thinking, Whimsey's idea makes much more sense because it puts the moly right at the most stressed areas during the most critical time in any engine's life: the very first start up. [ August 03, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Originally posted by Whimsey: Is it proven that the Honda factory fill is loaded with moly or is that moly coming from the assembly lube.
I would go by the manual. I am sure Honda knows how these engines break in and changing it too soon might interfere with it.
At work we issued a Nissan truck to a area supervisor and he didn't do a first oil change until 70k. That truck ran perfect until it was totalled at 345k.
quote:I (my wife) has a 2004 Odyssey. I changed the factory fill at 3,200 before June simply because I hate changing oil in the summer heat. I would have gone to 3,750 miles if the weather had permitted. I used Castrol GTX 10w-30 based on ambient temperature in Hotlanta. The fuel mileage is the same and the wife said the engine sounds smoother without being prompted by me. Stay away from the dino 5w-30 and the shearing. If you went that route, why not go with heavy 20 wt like Motorcraft oil? 10w-30 dino du jour (Castrol, Havoline, Pennzoil) is going to be much more shear stable than a dino 5w-30. I will do a UOA on the 10w-30 in October or November and will try the Motorcraft 5w-20 for the winter. Just a thought.
Originally posted by 72sub: Ok, I'm easily swayed. Now I'm going to change @ 600 or maybe 1000 mi. and use 5w30.
quote:I think you answered your own question; do not do the first oil change until 3750 miles and use 5w-20. It is Honda and they do not add this extra bit of infor regarding the first oil change because they needed to fill the pages of the manual, they made a point of stating that. Listen to Honda, they have "pretty good" reputation for quality cars. You will get tons of opinions from "experts" here, just read the manual and you'll end up selling the van before the is every an oil related issues, if ever.
Originally posted by 72sub: not do the first oil change until 3750 miles (severe schedule). Should I do the first change at 600 or 3750 miles? Also, should I use 5w20 as the manual states or something else? Thanks.
72sub, whatever interval you choose, please perform a UOA and post it here. ![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
quote:There's nothing wrong with using a dino 5W-30 as long as you do regular oil changes. I've had nothing else but that in my Acura... I now have almost 130k without any oil-related problems whatsoever. I've never had to add any additional oil between changes... no leaks or burning. My OCI has been 3750. Also, you do realize that 5W-30 is thicker than 5W-20 right?
Originally posted by John in the ATL: Stay away from the dino 5w-30 and the shearing. If you went that route, why not go with heavy 20 wt like Motorcraft oil? 10w-30 dino du jour (Castrol, Havoline, Pennzoil) is going to be much more shear stable than a dino 5w-30.
quote:5w-30 dino is fine for Wisconsin and the upper midwest but not for Atlanta and the deep south. A quality 10w-30 dino of Chevron/Havoline, Pennzoil, or Castrol GTX can be run year round in warmer climates. Yes I realize that 5w-30 is thicker than 5w-20 but it is not as shear stable as the Motorcraft 5w-20 which is made from better basestock oil. The MC 5w-20 is almost a 30 weight oil anyway. 5w-30 requires alot of viscosity improvers and polymers to do the job and most of the time it will shear down to a 5w-20.
Originally posted by sjlee: [QUOTE]There's nothing wrong with using a dino 5W-30 as long as you do regular oil changes. I've had nothing else but that in my Acura... I now have almost 130k without any oil-related problems whatsoever. I've never had to add any additional oil between changes... no leaks or burning. My OCI has been 3750. Also, you do realize that 5W-30 is thicker than 5W-20 right?
The factory recommended OCI for my Honda Element is 5k miles. Factory also recommends leaving the factory fill until AT LEAST the first recommended interval.
Con of leaving factory fill for 3,750 as your manual recommends: metal debris floating around your engine. Argument against this: no concrete proof that this is harmful to the engine -- and oil filter should catch the bigger particles.
Con of changing factory fill at 1k: Draining additives that supposedly help seal the rings.
Personally, I am more concerned with the latter. Plus, I see no reason to think we are smarter than the factory engineers. All the mistrust I her seems to be just that -- mistrust.
As far as oil choices are concerned, I'm using Mobil 1 0W20 in Southern California. Motorcraft 5W20 syn blend would be my choice if I was going to stick to dino priced oil.
From what I've read, UOA's show the 5W20's performing well. If you're concerned (like I am) that the 5W20's aren't going to perform well, then get the M1 like I did. Keep in mind a recent UOA show a regular Pennzoil 5W20 performed just as well as the M1.
I have a 2001 Civic LX that I bought new. Did not change the oil the first time until 5000 miles - the "severe" mileage interval. Since the initial oil change I usually aim for 4000 mile intervals. I have run only 5W-20 and used Texaco Havoline and Motorcraft to begin with. They were the only 2 I could find for some time. I have also used Valvoline and Castrol GTX.
The Civic is now at 101,000 miles. On the last long interstate trip the car achieved 40+ mpg so I would say it is still running fine. I have no doubt the car will still be running well at the 200,000 mile mark.
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