03Accord - trans NoLoad dwnshifts, now slips? also wont hold cruise..

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Originally Posted by columnshift
Originally Posted by SatinSilver
One option is taking it to the Honda dealer for a diagnosis. The owner can pay a diag fee of $75-100 to get a good idea of what's going on with it. Checking the fluid level, a fluid change, a new sensor or two to fix it would be ideal. All those things may have helped it initially but that's water under the bridge now.

I had a bad trans flare btw 1st and 2nd after the dealer changed the rear main seal on a 99 Accord 4cyl. They did a simple drain and fill and no more issues till I sold the car 70k miles later.


Also are you suggesting those things are pointless to do now?

FWIW the car just drove 80 miles without any problem whatsoever, some city some highway. Fluid level seems normal, and again the fluid doesn't look all bad or such either, it's just 10k beyond the proper change interval.

If there's a sensor or two to fix it i'm wondering if those are DIY or some $1000 honda nightmare - for that price I could almost grab another car, when I dont even know what the life is otherwise now that so much doubt has been raised about it.

I'm wondering if I can do a fluid change myself - but I dont have a hoist. I understand normally they'd run the car on the hoist up thru 2nd gear to get fluid flowing, so you can add more and drain as you go. But is there a way to do it just changing fluid that's available, driving it a bit, then changing some more? Even if it's a bit wasteful on fluid, it's better than nothing. Even if I cant fully drain all 100% could I dilute it with a series of a couple changes....

...and is the trans THAT sensitive to being just 10k over the suggested interval that it's likely to start malfunctioning that soon to begin with. :p Seeking opinion of Honda lovers here not Honda cynics...



The ATF that's been in the trans for the last 70K will not just all the sudden cause issues like falling out of high gear! Maintenance needs performed on a regular basis but is RARELY a silver bullet fix.
All the sensors & shift solenoids are on the outside of the unit.

Did you read my first post to this thread about the VSS??

I'm a cynic about ALL vehicles & manufacturers. They have ALL made junk at one time or another......
 
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Originally Posted by JamesBond
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Transmission shops just throw "Banner Kit's" & a torque converter in these units......That's the reason they NEVER last after a so-called rebuild.


Could you explain what should be replaced in a transmission rebuild in addition to a "banner kit" and torque converter? Thank you in advance.


It's VERY specific to the transmission. Are you asking about this particular Honda-BAYA 5 speed auto?
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by JamesBond
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Transmission shops just throw "Banner Kit's" & a torque converter in these units......That's the reason they NEVER last after a so-called rebuild.


Could you explain what should be replaced in a transmission rebuild in addition to a "banner kit" and torque converter? Thank you in advance.


It's VERY specific to the transmission. Are you asking about this particular Honda-BAYA 5 speed auto?


Yes, and where would you get the parts, or what brands would be good?
 
Originally Posted by dogememe
Originally Posted by gregk24
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
70k isn't bad for a V6 Honda automatic
mad.gif


$3500 should get you a better car with a real transmission. That means no V6 Honda automatic, and no Chrysler minivans.

If you like the Accord, the 4-cylinder version is good, and much easier to live with. The 4-cylinder automatic is fine. If you still want a V6, it was available with a manual transmission in 2006 and 2007 (in the 2-door, the V6 manual was offered from 2003-2017).


These automatics are real transmissions. The 2003-2004 model years of the 7th generation were prone to failure due to a poor design that allowed overheating. This affected both V6 AND 4 cylinder models. 2006+ V6 and 4 cylinder Accords equipped with the 5 speed auto are about as solid as they come.

Pretty sure the pre 2003 v6 automatic Accords suffer from reliability issues, not just 03+


Sure, I never suggested they didn't. However, this thread is about the 5 speed auto in the 7th generation. Not previous years.
 
Originally Posted by JamesBond

Yes, and where would you get the parts, or what brands would be good?


The biggest weakness on this unit is the SMALL fixed displacement Oil Pump, Unfortunately there is not a correction for this......The builder MUST blueprint the pump clearances! This may require replacing/machining the Gears & Valve body!
I like.....
Radial Clearance(Side), Drive Gear-.008" Driven Gear-.0025"
Axial Clearance(Thrust), Drive Gear & Driven Gear-.001"

Installing a trans cooler on these is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound! Once the Pump wears & losses some of it's efficiency.....The Pressure Regulator WILL prioritize Main Line Pressure over Cooler Flow & Converter Charge, This will cause a significant drop in cooler flow & converter charge.....Then the unit will overheat & the converter clutch will drag eventually leading to complete failure.
*Sonnax has a drop-in "Lube to Line" regulator Valve that has an internal channel to divert oil to the Converter & Cooler regardless of the PR Valve position.
This PR Valve Bore is usually worn to the point a drop in valve is of no use......Sonnax has an oversized PR Valve HERE Tool Kit Required!

Torque Converter Check Valve Kit. The OE check valve can stick & ALSO cause restricted Converter & Cooler flow. Sonnax part HERE

Lockup Shift Valve Kit, Again.....Helping Converter & Cooler flow!!! Sonnax part HERE

Clutch Pressure Control valves can & do wear......You really need the vacuum test these or just Ream & Replace with the Sonnax part HERE Tool Kit Required!

Various Bore End-Plugs leak precious pressure thats needed for Converter & Cooler flow, It would take forever to map-out each one.....So hre is a Valve Body Layout to assist......HERE
End-Plug kit HERE

The friction material used in Honda 5 speeds is Substandard.....That's putting it nicely!
Aisin-Borg Warner is the OE supplier for these & generally make world class friction plates.....But they dropped the ball here, Don't know if it was the Honda specifications that led to this or not?
USE Raybestos GPX Frictions in this unit, They are far superior for this application!! Info HERE

Transtar & WIT are Sonnax & Raybestos dealers.
 
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Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
You don't need a hoist. Just jack it up or drive it on ramps like you would to change the oil.In fact, Honda ATF changes are actually easier than doing an oil change
smile.gif



Is there an youtube video you would recommend? Sorry for needing handholding I just like to see it first because i'm NOT a mechanic and my anxiety is acting up due to the stress of this and how I don't have any safety net if this goes bad... I can replace parts, with much trepidation and self doubt. Plus I can see right where the plug is then.

Yes I actually searched youtube - I got confused because I saw people commenting on others videos "no no dont do it that way!" so i've no clue what a right way or wrong way is. I'm trying to ask someone who knows - which is not me. I've also asked on honda accord forums - amazingly almost nothing has been said in multiple days.

How many quarts should I plan to buy? I'm sure only 1/4 or 1/3 will come out I mean but should I bring home 6 or 12...

Which fluid do I use, Honda-specific or something safe for a generic? (with how sensitive people act like these trans are what am I risking, or is it marketing BS from Honda)

I'm told there is a filter - can I change that too? Is it a nightmare?


It doesn't sound too hard... jack up car, find the drain plug, empty whatever comes out, refill (uhh with a funnel to the dipstick or is there some other fill point?)... is there any waiting period to let that fluid get everywhere? Then go take a little drive around town. Come back home - do it all again - four times in a row. (unless there's filter instructions)

In addition to this, is there anything else I should consider doing...


Dear god... all I need this to last is just another month and a few thousand miles (essential unavoidable medical treatment 250 miles away required weekly), to do enough extra work to hopefully pick up some other beater for $600 off craigslist. I thought I had made a good choice getting this car with the rebuilt trans and all.
frown.gif


PS - clinebarger thanks for the comments and detailed info if I ever find myself trying to rebuild or get rebuilt one of these nasty transmissions tho for the cost that seems unlikely unless I can learn to do it myself. Yes despite my self doubt on this simple job i've done a clutch so who knows whats possible.... Yes I read about the VSS - I thought I had responded here to it. I didn't notice any funny speedometer readings during any of the missed shift conditions. Unless it's so brief it wouldn't show up and I should just replace the VSS anyways and it's cheap or something. If it's just a pop off sensor to screw out and screw back in i'm willing to do that too.

PPS - would a shop like kennedy transmission really charge 3500 for just a torque converter change and crap quality rebuild?? are these trans even capable of being any good if 'properly' rebuilt to last 200k like any modern automatic should?

PPPS - clinebarger "The ATF that's been in the trans for the last 70K will not just all the sudden cause issues like falling out of high gear! Maintenance needs performed on a regular basis but is RARELY a silver bullet fix. All the sensors & shift solenoids are on the outside of the unit." - I wouldn't think so either... however i'm wondering if dirt in some hydraulic passage or a sticky check ball somewhere could if it's ultrasensitive... thats why my friend suggested to change the fluid instantly since it's 10k past due, it can only help. But do you think there's any chance I will buy that much more trans life if something somewhere is sticking ever at this point?

Is it that feasible an electronic failure is responsible vs hydraulic with how everyone is saying these trans are junk and 70k is about what to expect on a rebuild? Plus the only maintenance I was aware of being required was just the fluid change 10k past due... if i'm missing anything else please tell me. If I could somehow tell from some OBD code that some sensor or solenoid was failing is that a DIYable repair? If I get an OBD2 scanner what menu or whatever am I looking for to see if something funny is reported?
 
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Agree with diagnosis. We had one of the "awful" honda ATs in our gen 1 odyssey, and it had a flawless life until it was T-boned at 120,000 miles. no transmission issues at all, and my wife was not gentle with it. My MIL had a gen 1 MDX with the "awful" honda AT, which was totaled around 130,000 in a rear-ender. Both had the dealer recalls earlier in life. to be fair, they both shifted better than the "bulletproof" 4spd auto in the 2002 accord 4cyl which I used to have - it had a shift flare that was especially pronounced in the 1-2 upshift that never sat right with me. All that to say, it could be a sensor issue, since it's not just slipping in gear.

I'd inspect the fluid for shrapnel. IIRC if these degrade it's a 2nd or 3rd gear intermediate shaft/gear issue that physically comes apart, and there's good evidence of stuff in the fluid. If the fluid is clean, I'd certainly pay to have it diagnosed. Even if it's a weak trans, it's surrounded by a serviceable vehicle, especially if repair is possible. It's just an inconvenience.... but all older cars will have some level of inconvenience, too....
 
With which diagnosis, or you mean to try and have it diagnosed by a pro? I just dont want to throw hundreds of dollars at no purpose since that's needed for the next vehicle since unless I know for a fact that it was due to an electronic solenoid or sensor i'm not going to trust it and am assuming the trans is on it's way out and can no longer be relied upon as a primary vehicle.

I'm not even sure if bringing it in for diagnosis will instantly show a problem since I just went over 300 miles without a hitch. I can OBD2 it (tho no code was triggered that I could tell) but don't know if "it" even knows there is a problem yet since it's not consistent nor predictable whats happening.

I mean right now my thinking is #1 cant trust it = save for next vehicle, no choice. #2 already have it, so AFTER getting a main replacement vehicle squared away, see how the fluid change is working (will do that this week), constantly check for OBD2 codes, drive it like a granny and WAIT to see if the problem shows up again. Before considering spending hundreds more on it.
 
Originally Posted by columnshift

Which fluid do I use, Honda-specific or something safe for a generic? (with how sensitive people act like these trans are what am I risking, or is it marketing BS from Honda)

I'm told there is a filter - can I change that too? Is it a nightmare?


In my experience.....Honda's are picky about ATF, Use DW-1 ONLY!

These units have 2 filters.....A suction/sump filter that is NOT serviceable. And a cooler-return filter the IS serviceable. It's located under the Intake Air Tube.....I'm sure there are Youtube videos on the procedure.

Originally Posted by columnshift

Yes I read about the VSS - I thought I had responded here to it. I didn't notice any funny speedometer readings during any of the missed shift conditions. Unless it's so brief it wouldn't show up and I should just replace the VSS anyways and it's cheap or something. If it's just a pop off sensor to screw out and screw back in i'm willing to do that too.


VSS drop-out was just a possible cause....This would be the perfect problem for Logging Data! I don't throw parts at problems nor would I recommend anyone do so!
It's very easy to change & is right next to the cooler-return filter.

Originally Posted by columnshift

PPS - would a shop like kennedy transmission really charge 3500 for just a torque converter change and crap quality rebuild?? are these trans even capable of being any good if 'properly' rebuilt to last 200k like any modern automatic should?


I have no idea who that is? But Transmission shops have been ripping people off by patching these units up for YEARS. Transmission rebuilding is an obsolete skill along with the business model that goes with it. It's dependent on a constant flow of broken transmissions to make an Honest & Viable living.
Instead of pivoting into performance builds/Internet sales & offering more services...Most dedicated Trans shop owners stuck with it & resorted to ripping people off to keep the doors open.

This unit has core engineering problems, The Pump has ZERO reserve capacity along with a design that works the Friction Plates to death. It's basically a automated manual transmission with clutch packs & a torque converter. CAN one one of these make 200K?......Sure, But it's asking a lot especially the 3rd clutch that receives very little Lube but has to "overrun" in high gear.

Honda should have swallowed it's pride & bought Aisin automatics. A Honda J30 backed by a Aisin A541E would be awesome....


Originally Posted by columnshift

I'm wondering if dirt in some hydraulic passage or a sticky check ball somewhere could if it's ultrasensitive... thats why my friend suggested to change the fluid instantly since it's 10k past due, it can only help. But do you think there's any chance I will buy that much more trans life if something somewhere is sticking ever at this point?


All the shift valves & solenoids are in a Static position while in high gear, Now.....I'm going off your initial complaint of it falling out of high gear at speed.
If your car came in my shop.....I would do a whole battery of test.....
*Line Pressure.
*Data log....Trans Temp, Shift Solenoid states, VSS, ISS, TPS, MAP.
*Cooler flow.
*Test drive for as many days as it takes.

I would never discourage people from maintaining their vehicle, But it's called "preventive" for a good reason!!

Originally Posted by columnshift

Is it that feasible an electronic failure is responsible vs hydraulic with how everyone is saying these trans are junk and 70k is about what to expect on a rebuild? Plus the only maintenance I was aware of being required was just the fluid change 10k past due... if i'm missing anything else please tell me. If I could somehow tell from some OBD code that some sensor or solenoid was failing is that a DIYable repair? If I get an OBD2 scanner what menu or whatever am I looking for to see if something funny is reported?


See above.
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger

These units have 2 filters.....A suction/sump filter that is NOT serviceable. And a cooler-return filter the IS serviceable. It's located under the Intake Air Tube.....I'm sure there are Youtube videos on the procedure.


I'm not even sure if this year has a cooler honestly... youtube was a mixed bunch with people posting service videos of this trans full of others saying "this is bad advice dont listen to it!" leaving me confused on what was right. Not helped by the dealer first telling me "there is no trans filter" and second that even if there was, they wouldn't change the filter during a scheduled trans fluid change anyways - so I opted to just self change the fluid for 3 rounds like they do apparently, and here's what i've found so far:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ooal02s06ysm9yz/trans_plug_01.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/08o2rwhs5k1xp1m/trans_plug_02.jpg?dl=0

This seems like a fair bit of gunk on the magnetic plug for 70k? Unless the trans fluid interval should have been 30k even after a rebuild?

I didn't yet get a good picture of the trans fluid (it was not pure pink good, but was not even the reddish icky many are yet) but it smelled a bit off, no longer sweet like fresh stuff.

I'm wondering if it's better to immediately do the 2nd and 3rd changes of fluid - vs driving it for awhile first between each, hoping for more gunk to collect on the magnetic plug, in the hopes of removing it.


Originally Posted by columnshift

PPS - would a shop like kennedy transmission really charge 3500 for just a torque converter change and crap quality rebuild?? are these trans even capable of being any good if 'properly' rebuilt to last 200k like any modern automatic should?


Originally Posted by clinebarger

I have no idea who that is? But Transmission shops have been ripping people off by patching these units up for YEARS.

This unit has core engineering problems,


I'm sorry I was under the impression they were a chain. I mean maybe a regional or national chain. I guess theyre just ultralocal.

What about the 06-07 BAYA models? I wont spend $3500 to have rebuilt a piece of crap that might struggle to last 70-100k again. But the honda boards suggest the problems were fixed by the later years and compatible model of this trans - and i've seen rebuilt models on ebay for $1000 or so.

I don't want to do a trans swap this winter or probably even next winter honestly - but I probably did 65% of the work of one already when I pulled a trans and replaced a clutch in the past on a different car. I'm not eager to jump into it again, but i'd like to salvage this car if it can be tolerably reliable.


Originally Posted by columnshift

I'm wondering if dirt in some hydraulic passage or a sticky check ball somewhere could if it's ultrasensitive...


Originally Posted by clinebarger

All the shift valves & solenoids are in a Static position while in high gear,


Well for what it's worth, OBD2 shows nothing in the transmission codes side - but look at the gunk on the magnetic plug. Anyone want to place bets on how much that may be contributing to the problem?

For what it's worth, even before pulling the above plug - the trans went 400+ miles without a single hitch, the first half around town shifting, the rest on the highway. The intermittency is what makes me go hmm.

It's now getting it's fluid changed, the above is from the first change. (and again - should I insta rush to the 2nd/3rd changes, or should I let it swirl past the drain plug longer hoping to remove more crap sticking to that magnetic plug - or should I just change all the fluid ASAP and start doing a periodic trans plug removal to clean it and degunk it before putting right back in as a periodic service)


Can anyone speculate on the reasonably expected life of a rebuilt 06-07 BAYA trans? I might try to drive this as it is, park it in the garage if it starts to develop shift problems again, and try to swap the trans in two years when I have better tools, more experience, and a better place to do it.
 
Originally Posted by columnshift
I'm wondering if it's better to immediately do the 2nd and 3rd changes of fluid - vs driving it for awhile first between each, hoping for more gunk to collect on the magnetic plug, in the hopes of removing it.
If your fluid is not obviously contaminated you probably don't need multiple cycles.

Originally Posted by columnshift
Can anyone speculate on the reasonably expected life of a rebuilt 06-07 BAYA trans? I might try to drive this as it is, park it in the garage if it starts to develop shift problems again, and try to swap the trans in two years when I have better tools, more experience, and a better place to do it.
If you're not motivated now you won't be in two years. Drive it till it blows, replace with cheap manual transmission car!
 
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by columnshift
I'm wondering if it's better to immediately do the 2nd and 3rd changes of fluid - vs driving it for awhile first between each, hoping for more gunk to collect on the magnetic plug, in the hopes of removing it.
If your fluid is not obviously contaminated you probably don't need multiple cycles.


The crap on the plug makes me think it is, since it was full enough i'm sure there was more than that which couldn't even stick to the absolutely saturated plug, and it's darker than fresh fluid, and a good 8-9 years old. Normal honda service procedure is 3 consecutive changes.

The main other modification I could think of is to just do the other 2 changes now, then still periodically pull the plug in the future and wipe it off as a way of getting particles out if theyre still in there.

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by columnshift
Can anyone speculate on the reasonably expected life of a rebuilt 06-07 BAYA trans? I might try to drive this as it is, park it in the garage if it starts to develop shift problems again, and try to swap the trans in two years when I have better tools, more experience, and a better place to do it.
If you're not motivated now you won't be in two years. Drive it till it blows, replace with cheap manual transmission car!


Not super helpful. It's not about motivation it's about where i'm living being a poor location for work that heavy, that i'm already scheduled to help with at least one other transmission job on another car by spring, and that I should go from hopelessly impoverished to being able to afford a midrise or something if needed for the job by then since I wanted one anyway.
 
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Originally Posted by columnshift
Originally Posted by clinebarger

These units have 2 filters.....A suction/sump filter that is NOT serviceable. And a cooler-return filter the IS serviceable. It's located under the Intake Air Tube.....I'm sure there are Youtube videos on the procedure.


I'm not even sure if this year has a cooler honestly... youtube was a mixed bunch with people posting service videos of this trans full of others saying "this is bad advice dont listen to it!" leaving me confused on what was right. Not helped by the dealer first telling me "there is no trans filter" and second that even if there was, they wouldn't change the filter during a scheduled trans fluid change anyways - so I opted to just self change the fluid for 3 rounds like they do apparently, and here's what i've found so far:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ooal02s06ysm9yz/trans_plug_01.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/08o2rwhs5k1xp1m/trans_plug_02.jpg?dl=0

This seems like a fair bit of gunk on the magnetic plug for 70k? Unless the trans fluid interval should have been 30k even after a rebuild?

I didn't yet get a good picture of the trans fluid (it was not pure pink good, but was not even the reddish icky many are yet) but it smelled a bit off, no longer sweet like fresh stuff.

I'm wondering if it's better to immediately do the 2nd and 3rd changes of fluid - vs driving it for awhile first between each, hoping for more gunk to collect on the magnetic plug, in the hopes of removing it.


Originally Posted by columnshift

PPS - would a shop like kennedy transmission really charge 3500 for just a torque converter change and crap quality rebuild?? are these trans even capable of being any good if 'properly' rebuilt to last 200k like any modern automatic should?


Originally Posted by clinebarger

I have no idea who that is? But Transmission shops have been ripping people off by patching these units up for YEARS.

This unit has core engineering problems,


I'm sorry I was under the impression they were a chain. I mean maybe a regional or national chain. I guess theyre just ultralocal.

What about the 06-07 BAYA models? I wont spend $3500 to have rebuilt a piece of crap that might struggle to last 70-100k again. But the honda boards suggest the problems were fixed by the later years and compatible model of this trans - and i've seen rebuilt models on ebay for $1000 or so.

I don't want to do a trans swap this winter or probably even next winter honestly - but I probably did 65% of the work of one already when I pulled a trans and replaced a clutch in the past on a different car. I'm not eager to jump into it again, but i'd like to salvage this car if it can be tolerably reliable.


Originally Posted by columnshift

I'm wondering if dirt in some hydraulic passage or a sticky check ball somewhere could if it's ultrasensitive...


Originally Posted by clinebarger

All the shift valves & solenoids are in a Static position while in high gear,


Well for what it's worth, OBD2 shows nothing in the transmission codes side - but look at the gunk on the magnetic plug. Anyone want to place bets on how much that may be contributing to the problem?

For what it's worth, even before pulling the above plug - the trans went 400+ miles without a single hitch, the first half around town shifting, the rest on the highway. The intermittency is what makes me go hmm.

It's now getting it's fluid changed, the above is from the first change. (and again - should I insta rush to the 2nd/3rd changes, or should I let it swirl past the drain plug longer hoping to remove more crap sticking to that magnetic plug - or should I just change all the fluid ASAP and start doing a periodic trans plug removal to clean it and degunk it before putting right back in as a periodic service)


Can anyone speculate on the reasonably expected life of a rebuilt 06-07 BAYA trans? I might try to drive this as it is, park it in the garage if it starts to develop shift problems again, and try to swap the trans in two years when I have better tools, more experience, and a better place to do it.



It has a cooler....It's mounted right on top of the trans right next to the Cooler-Return Filter. Alldata no longer lets me copy pictures & my ATSG manuals don't have good drawings of the cooler & external filter.........Here is a video that may help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLZeZdg4QHA

The Helical Gears will shed iron......More so than traditional Planetary Carrier equipped units in my opinion/observations. The metal build-up on the magnet is normal for the amount of miles driven without service.
 
Thanks for the advice...

The situation is rapidly changing though. If I cannot retrieve a foreign object (3 inch length of vinyl tubing) that slipped deeply down the transmission dipstick hole due to something that's still leaving my head scratching, the transmission is probably dead.

I'm trying to look into options of where I can park and store the car, preferably indoors, to possibly work on it.

Swapping a transmission may be within my ability having done a clutch - or it may be beyond me - but if I dont do it I probably have a worthless car, so I may have nothing to lose. Because i'm pretty sure I can't ignore a foreign object in the trans.

So if I can find a place to park it indoors this winter for a "way earlier than planned project" I was hoping was two years off, but is now right on top of me, whats involved in changing the trans? Do I need a midrise lift? Do I have to drop an entire subframe out of the bottom of the car and move it forward? Or do I dismantle body panels? Or what is involved? Does a cherry picker even help or is that irrelevant/only for the engine?

If I survive through this i'm either going to gain a level in awesome or i'm not much worse off than when I started cuz I already got the car, and it's already on the death watch, I just wasn't expecting it to have to be done NOW or near future. At worst I buy some tools early using school loans come Feb that I can hopefully use on other jobs to make them pay for themself too.

Here's my current drama if anyone has something to add for other options or ideas right now: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...g-went-down-my-dipstick-hole#Post4899919

All that said... any suggestions what the reasonable lifespan of an 06-07 BAYA trans is? I'm thinking more getting a used one than a rebuilt one (no longer the plan to save up $1100 to do in two years but instead becomes the goal of just getting back on the road with anything, plus less to lose if I fail at my swap attempt) just to minimize what else I am risking in things right now but i'm curious how much improved they are over the 03-05 slushboxes. I'm also trying to tell myself to psych up for the job "if i'm able to complete this AND it works I should have a reasonably reliably car for (x) miles..."
 
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Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by columnshift

Which fluid do I use, Honda-specific or something safe for a generic? (with how sensitive people act like these trans are what am I risking, or is it marketing BS from Honda)

I'm told there is a filter - can I change that too? Is it a nightmare?


In my experience.....Honda's are picky about ATF, Use DW-1 ONLY!

These units have 2 filters.....A suction/sump filter that is NOT serviceable. And a cooler-return filter the IS serviceable. It's located under the Intake Air Tube.....I'm sure there are Youtube videos on the procedure.

Originally Posted by columnshift

Yes I read about the VSS - I thought I had responded here to it. I didn't notice any funny speedometer readings during any of the missed shift conditions. Unless it's so brief it wouldn't show up and I should just replace the VSS anyways and it's cheap or something. If it's just a pop off sensor to screw out and screw back in i'm willing to do that too.


VSS drop-out was just a possible cause....This would be the perfect problem for Logging Data! I don't throw parts at problems nor would I recommend anyone do so!
It's very easy to change & is right next to the cooler-return filter.

Originally Posted by columnshift

PPS - would a shop like kennedy transmission really charge 3500 for just a torque converter change and crap quality rebuild?? are these trans even capable of being any good if 'properly' rebuilt to last 200k like any modern automatic should?


I have no idea who that is? But Transmission shops have been ripping people off by patching these units up for YEARS. Transmission rebuilding is an obsolete skill along with the business model that goes with it. It's dependent on a constant flow of broken transmissions to make an Honest & Viable living.
Instead of pivoting into performance builds/Internet sales & offering more services...Most dedicated Trans shop owners stuck with it & resorted to ripping people off to keep the doors open.

This unit has core engineering problems, The Pump has ZERO reserve capacity along with a design that works the Friction Plates to death. It's basically a automated manual transmission with clutch packs & a torque converter. CAN one one of these make 200K?......Sure, But it's asking a lot especially the 3rd clutch that receives very little Lube but has to "overrun" in high gear.

Honda should have swallowed it's pride & bought Aisin automatics. A Honda J30 backed by a Aisin A541E would be awesome....


Originally Posted by columnshift

I'm wondering if dirt in some hydraulic passage or a sticky check ball somewhere could if it's ultrasensitive... thats why my friend suggested to change the fluid instantly since it's 10k past due, it can only help. But do you think there's any chance I will buy that much more trans life if something somewhere is sticking ever at this point?


All the shift valves & solenoids are in a Static position while in high gear, Now.....I'm going off your initial complaint of it falling out of high gear at speed.
If your car came in my shop.....I would do a whole battery of test.....
*Line Pressure.
*Data log....Trans Temp, Shift Solenoid states, VSS, ISS, TPS, MAP.
*Cooler flow.
*Test drive for as many days as it takes.

I would never discourage people from maintaining their vehicle, But it's called "preventive" for a good reason!!

Originally Posted by columnshift

Is it that feasible an electronic failure is responsible vs hydraulic with how everyone is saying these trans are junk and 70k is about what to expect on a rebuild? Plus the only maintenance I was aware of being required was just the fluid change 10k past due... if i'm missing anything else please tell me. If I could somehow tell from some OBD code that some sensor or solenoid was failing is that a DIYable repair? If I get an OBD2 scanner what menu or whatever am I looking for to see if something funny is reported?


See above.


You seem to know a lot about Honda 5 speeds. So I will ask you, when were these issues corrected? Because you hear very little about issues with later gen 7.5's and pretty much no issues with the 5 speed in the 8th gens.
 
Hard to know your issue without some diagnosis.

Replies to some comments.

"I wouldn't need to worry about engine (honda reliability)". Bought mine new for reliability but my Honda has had many problems.
Valves should be adjusted at about 150K miles.

"trans (rebuilt 70k ago)". My original 2002 went about 70K before the third gear clutch went bad on Z-1 only. Typical third gear slipping.

"trans are very sensitive to fluid problems". Or rather these units have had problems.
If enough debris from worn clutches develops, debris can block strainers and screens and cause low pressure problems. Your mileage may vary.

"fluid change myself - but I dont have a hoist. " Raising car helpful but not needed. Should be high enough.
"video on how to change the trans fluid". See links below.
As other posters said, no hoist needed. Remove drain plug with 3/8" socket wrench with no socket on it. Maybe a pipe over the socket wrench for more leverage. Drains about 3 1/2 quarts. Remove fill bolt. 17mm. Fill bolt might need nearly as much torque to remove as a wheel nut in my experience. Refill using fill hole if you have a long funnel that will not break. See video links. Check ATF level engine off, normal operating temp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCR2zk3CETo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7_RsnD8hAU
Don't use Z-1. Eric did write in an update in video. Z-1 outdated and many Hondas failed on Z-1.

From diagrams of 2003 Accord V6

Part 6 ATF strainer
https://estore.honda.com/honda/images/parts/catalogs/EA/14SDA01/Estore/illustrations2/S2X1A2850.png
Cannot be replaced without splitting the case.

Part 1 AT case. No pan to drop.
https://estore.honda.com/honda/images/parts/catalogs/EA/14SDA01/Estore/illustrations2/SDA3A1200.png

Part 31 dipstick. Looks to be not too hard to remove. Don't know about access.
Part 7 element ATF can be replaced.
https://estore.honda.com/honda/images/parts/catalogs/EA/14SDA01/Estore/illustrations2/SDA4A1700C.png

Strainer itself could be clogged and blocked with debris but strainer cannot be removed without splitting case. See part 6 above.

The plastic tube dropped in the dipstick might be in the dipstick tube. See part 31 above. Or maybe inside the bottom of the transmission. There is a strainer in bottom of transmission but no removable pan. Plastic tube might cause no issue if it does not block the intake for the strainer. In old Ford Explorers, plastic plugs in the AT fill hole were pushed into the transmission on the first AT servicing and plug not removed. This was the factory procedure. No special problem resulted. https://www.justanswer.com/ford/4uhf8-ford-crown-victoria-lx-husband-changing-transmission.html
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by gregk24

You seem to know a lot about Honda 5 speeds. So I will ask you, when were these issues corrected? Because you hear very little about issues with later gen 7.5's and pretty much no issues with the 5 speed in the 8th gens.


I started specializing in GM performance builds right about the time 2004 5 speeds came off factory warranty so I never got exposed to the later units.....It wouldn't have been hard for Honda to fix these short comings. Better pump clearance QC, Lube to line bypass, And better frictions would solve 80% of the early/repeat failures associated with these units.

Let's also not overlook a more aggressive "Torque Management" strategy can play a huge role in making a weak trans live a longer life. GM did this with the 2003 & up 4L60E's & cut the failure rate by a third.
A win-win for manufactures as they can still rate their engine at peak power even though it may not EVER produce that in the real world,
 
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