Ya but your missing the point...this is almost no wear and lightens the maint schedule and uses, I'm guessing 5 qts orininal fill plus 3.5 qts for a total usage of 8.5 for 35K, is amazing, just think about it!!!!
03 Honda S2000 Amsoil 0W-30 35,096 mi OCI w/bypass
- Thread starter slalom44
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Slalom- Where are you pumping the oil from with the preluber, and what kind of fitting? Mine is pulled from a special drain plug, goes thru the pump and into the oil sending unit via a T fitting. What did you use for the fittings? Thanks!
Slalom- Too late to edit, sorry. What fitting did you use on the oil pan? My set up isn't as elaborate as yours. Basically the pump is similar to yours, and sits on a fender well. It draws oil from the pan thru a small filter into the pump. From the pump it goes into the block where the oil sending unit sits, via a T fitting. What I'm interested in is what you used on the oil pan.
I have a NIB pump sitting in the basement, but I don't have another special plug which allows me to still drain oil via the pan. I can also use a quick disconnect at the oil sending unit, place the hose in a container and flip the dash mounted toggle. BTW I think that pump is a major factor in your great report, dry starts are totally eliminated! Thanks
I have a NIB pump sitting in the basement, but I don't have another special plug which allows me to still drain oil via the pan. I can also use a quick disconnect at the oil sending unit, place the hose in a container and flip the dash mounted toggle. BTW I think that pump is a major factor in your great report, dry starts are totally eliminated! Thanks
Demarpaint - I picked up a fitting with the same thread as my oil drain plug with a 6AN fitting on the other end. You should be able to get it from any Mocal distributor. I got mine from Batinc.net. The rest of my setup is similar to what you have. I also used a tee fitting to hook my prelube to my filter housing. The tee I used (8AN) is sold at just about every home improvement store.
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
Question....
How can this be about saving money on oil if you're using an expensive boutique oil, adding 4.5 quarts and paying for UOA? You could come out cheaper with a shelf brand synthetic and not doing the UOA. Amsoil math just doesn't add up for me when I can buy 5 quarts of M1 for $21 or less when its on sale, or Penzoil synthetic for even less using rebates. I simply don't see the need to feed extra cash to the Amsoil MLM upline.... and I'm running a supercharged vehicle.
The UOA is impressive for the miles but what's your total cost per 5000 miles if you factored in the cost of the by-pass setup, make-up oil, UOAs and Amsoil prices?
I don't get UOAs because I have to. It's not necessary any more. I do it because I want to, and to prove to the hoards of skeptics that they'e wasting oil.
It's interesting that you want to compare my cost to sale price oil with no UOAs.
I crunched the numbers, and it costs me roughly $25 per 5,000 miles with my setup and oil usage. My car would take 5.5 quarts, and roughly a half quart of makeup oil over a 5,000 mile OCI. With a decent filter that put's the price over $30.00 even with your sale prices without any UOAs.
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
Question....
How can this be about saving money on oil if you're using an expensive boutique oil, adding 4.5 quarts and paying for UOA? You could come out cheaper with a shelf brand synthetic and not doing the UOA. Amsoil math just doesn't add up for me when I can buy 5 quarts of M1 for $21 or less when its on sale, or Penzoil synthetic for even less using rebates. I simply don't see the need to feed extra cash to the Amsoil MLM upline.... and I'm running a supercharged vehicle.
The UOA is impressive for the miles but what's your total cost per 5000 miles if you factored in the cost of the by-pass setup, make-up oil, UOAs and Amsoil prices?
I don't get UOAs because I have to. It's not necessary any more. I do it because I want to, and to prove to the hoards of skeptics that they'e wasting oil.
It's interesting that you want to compare my cost to sale price oil with no UOAs.
I crunched the numbers, and it costs me roughly $25 per 5,000 miles with my setup and oil usage. My car would take 5.5 quarts, and roughly a half quart of makeup oil over a 5,000 mile OCI. With a decent filter that put's the price over $30.00 even with your sale prices without any UOAs.
Thanks for the info.
I just had a brain freeze, and I'm trying to visualize the fitting on the oil pan. Mine looks like a giant nut only it has no opening or threads for a bolt. It has a nipple coming out of it, and then on one of the flats an allen screw, which I use to drain the oil. It came with the pre-luber.
I just had a brain freeze, and I'm trying to visualize the fitting on the oil pan. Mine looks like a giant nut only it has no opening or threads for a bolt. It has a nipple coming out of it, and then on one of the flats an allen screw, which I use to drain the oil. It came with the pre-luber.
I love bypass oil systems! Extra capacity, extra cooling, extra extra filtering, prelubing! Worth every red cent!
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
Ya but your missing the point...this is almost no wear and lightens the maint schedule and uses, I'm guessing 5 qts orininal fill plus 3.5 qts for a total usage of 8.5 for 35K, is amazing, just think about it!!!!
Since he said cost was one of his considerations, I don't think I'm "missing the point." With a Fumoto drain valve, M1/K&N filters (changed every other oil change) and off-the-shelf synthetic I'm coming out cheaper, with great results even with a supercharger that is used often, minimal wear and little time put into oil changes (if you don't have a Fumoto drain valve I highly recommend it, makes oil changes fast).
Amsoil for reasons other than economic might have justification, but the economics don't add up when considering UOA costs and the boutique prices. I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions.
Ya but your missing the point...this is almost no wear and lightens the maint schedule and uses, I'm guessing 5 qts orininal fill plus 3.5 qts for a total usage of 8.5 for 35K, is amazing, just think about it!!!!
Since he said cost was one of his considerations, I don't think I'm "missing the point." With a Fumoto drain valve, M1/K&N filters (changed every other oil change) and off-the-shelf synthetic I'm coming out cheaper, with great results even with a supercharger that is used often, minimal wear and little time put into oil changes (if you don't have a Fumoto drain valve I highly recommend it, makes oil changes fast).
Amsoil for reasons other than economic might have justification, but the economics don't add up when considering UOA costs and the boutique prices. I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions.
Originally Posted By: slalom44
I don't get UOAs because I have to. It's not necessary any more. I do it because I want to, and to prove to the hoards of skeptics that they'e wasting oil.
It's interesting that you want to compare my cost to sale price oil with no UOAs.
I crunched the numbers, and it costs me roughly $25 per 5,000 miles with my setup and oil usage. My car would take 5.5 quarts, and roughly a half quart of makeup oil over a 5,000 mile OCI. With a decent filter that put's the price over $30.00 even with your sale prices without any UOAs.
My cost is about $25 every 7500 miles (change the filter every other change) and I'm about to go to 10K OCIs, and now that I'm watching the deals section section here oil is bought on sale so my costs are going to get much lower. I get my M1/K&N filters for about $5 because I wait for deals and stock up. The engine uses no appreciable oil over 7,500 miles (never had to add oil). The only oil it uses is a few table spoons drained from the catch-can every oil change.
I'm not knocking Amsoil. Its a good oil and analysis backs this up. However, analysis also shows many shelf-brand synthetics are very good oils as well. The debate for me isn't if Amsoil is good for long OCIs or not, but whether there is any real benefit to the added costs.
The only time I've run a boutique brand in my vehicle is when I got a case for free for a tech article I did. At the next OCI I switched back to a shelf brand. The economics favored it.
Based on your costs it runs $1000 for oil/filters over 200,000 miles. For me its $666. When I go to 10K OCIs the cost drops to $500 per 200,000 miles. I'd consider running boutique oils for a variety of reasons... economics isn't one of them. I have yet to see any MLM product, be it oil, cosmetics, vitamins, soap, etc. live up to the promise of lower cost.
For my other vehicles (not supercharged) I run conventional oils since they don't have the shear stresses and higher temps my supercharged engine has, and the economics favor conventional oil (by a long shot especially considering the conventional is holding up well with 7000 mile OCIs).
I don't get UOAs because I have to. It's not necessary any more. I do it because I want to, and to prove to the hoards of skeptics that they'e wasting oil.
It's interesting that you want to compare my cost to sale price oil with no UOAs.
I crunched the numbers, and it costs me roughly $25 per 5,000 miles with my setup and oil usage. My car would take 5.5 quarts, and roughly a half quart of makeup oil over a 5,000 mile OCI. With a decent filter that put's the price over $30.00 even with your sale prices without any UOAs.
My cost is about $25 every 7500 miles (change the filter every other change) and I'm about to go to 10K OCIs, and now that I'm watching the deals section section here oil is bought on sale so my costs are going to get much lower. I get my M1/K&N filters for about $5 because I wait for deals and stock up. The engine uses no appreciable oil over 7,500 miles (never had to add oil). The only oil it uses is a few table spoons drained from the catch-can every oil change.
I'm not knocking Amsoil. Its a good oil and analysis backs this up. However, analysis also shows many shelf-brand synthetics are very good oils as well. The debate for me isn't if Amsoil is good for long OCIs or not, but whether there is any real benefit to the added costs.
The only time I've run a boutique brand in my vehicle is when I got a case for free for a tech article I did. At the next OCI I switched back to a shelf brand. The economics favored it.
Based on your costs it runs $1000 for oil/filters over 200,000 miles. For me its $666. When I go to 10K OCIs the cost drops to $500 per 200,000 miles. I'd consider running boutique oils for a variety of reasons... economics isn't one of them. I have yet to see any MLM product, be it oil, cosmetics, vitamins, soap, etc. live up to the promise of lower cost.
For my other vehicles (not supercharged) I run conventional oils since they don't have the shear stresses and higher temps my supercharged engine has, and the economics favor conventional oil (by a long shot especially considering the conventional is holding up well with 7000 mile OCIs).
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
My cost is about $25 every 7500 miles (change the filter every other change) and I'm about to go to 10K OCIs, and now that I'm watching the deals section section here oil is bought on sale so my costs are going to get much lower. I get my M1/K&N filters for about $5 because I wait for deals and stock up. The engine uses no appreciable oil over 7,500 miles (never had to add oil). The only oil it uses is a few table spoons drained from the catch-can every oil change.
I'm not knocking Amsoil. Its a good oil and analysis backs this up. However, analysis also shows many shelf-brand synthetics are very good oils as well. The debate for me isn't if Amsoil is good for long OCIs or not, but whether there is any real benefit to the added costs.
The only time I've run a boutique brand in my vehicle is when I got a case for free for a tech article I did. At the next OCI I switched back to a shelf brand. The economics favored it.
Based on your costs it runs $1000 for oil/filters over 200,000 miles. For me its $666. When I go to 10K OCIs the cost drops to $500 per 200,000 miles. I'd consider running boutique oils for a variety of reasons... economics isn't one of them. I have yet to see any MLM product, be it oil, cosmetics, vitamins, soap, etc. live up to the promise of lower cost.
For my other vehicles (not supercharged) I run conventional oils since they don't have the shear stresses and higher temps my supercharged engine has, and the economics favor conventional oil (by a long shot especially considering the conventional is holding up well with 7000 mile OCIs).
Gee, that's nice but you're comparing apples to oranges. You don't have my car, so you can't compare your costs to mine. You apparently have a smaller sump and don't consume as much oil as I do so any comparison is meaningless.
And I didn't give you my actual costs, but the current costs. I have actually paid significantly less than $25 per 5000 miles over the years since prices were much lower in the past.
Quote:
I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions.
Great. I'll take that wager. How much you wanna bet? If you searched long enough you will find that no off-the-shelf oil comes close to holding TBN as well as Amsoil. None. And if you're comparing it to Mobil 1, I can tell you it isn't nearly as shear stable. I can dig up hundreds of UOAs showing that it shears out of grade in far shorter OCIs.
You sound convinced that you're saving money. Great. Whatever makes you feel happy. But comparing your costs on your car with my costs and implying I'm spending more with my setup is very misleading. And if you get any UOAs done, don't forget to add that to your total cost.
And I'll gladly bet that my engine will last longer than yours.
My cost is about $25 every 7500 miles (change the filter every other change) and I'm about to go to 10K OCIs, and now that I'm watching the deals section section here oil is bought on sale so my costs are going to get much lower. I get my M1/K&N filters for about $5 because I wait for deals and stock up. The engine uses no appreciable oil over 7,500 miles (never had to add oil). The only oil it uses is a few table spoons drained from the catch-can every oil change.
I'm not knocking Amsoil. Its a good oil and analysis backs this up. However, analysis also shows many shelf-brand synthetics are very good oils as well. The debate for me isn't if Amsoil is good for long OCIs or not, but whether there is any real benefit to the added costs.
The only time I've run a boutique brand in my vehicle is when I got a case for free for a tech article I did. At the next OCI I switched back to a shelf brand. The economics favored it.
Based on your costs it runs $1000 for oil/filters over 200,000 miles. For me its $666. When I go to 10K OCIs the cost drops to $500 per 200,000 miles. I'd consider running boutique oils for a variety of reasons... economics isn't one of them. I have yet to see any MLM product, be it oil, cosmetics, vitamins, soap, etc. live up to the promise of lower cost.
For my other vehicles (not supercharged) I run conventional oils since they don't have the shear stresses and higher temps my supercharged engine has, and the economics favor conventional oil (by a long shot especially considering the conventional is holding up well with 7000 mile OCIs).
Gee, that's nice but you're comparing apples to oranges. You don't have my car, so you can't compare your costs to mine. You apparently have a smaller sump and don't consume as much oil as I do so any comparison is meaningless.
And I didn't give you my actual costs, but the current costs. I have actually paid significantly less than $25 per 5000 miles over the years since prices were much lower in the past.
Quote:
I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions.
Great. I'll take that wager. How much you wanna bet? If you searched long enough you will find that no off-the-shelf oil comes close to holding TBN as well as Amsoil. None. And if you're comparing it to Mobil 1, I can tell you it isn't nearly as shear stable. I can dig up hundreds of UOAs showing that it shears out of grade in far shorter OCIs.
You sound convinced that you're saving money. Great. Whatever makes you feel happy. But comparing your costs on your car with my costs and implying I'm spending more with my setup is very misleading. And if you get any UOAs done, don't forget to add that to your total cost.
And I'll gladly bet that my engine will last longer than yours.
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Originally Posted By: slalom44
Gee, that's nice but you're comparing apples to oranges. You don't have my car, so you can't compare your costs to mine. You apparently have a smaller sump and don't consume as much oil as I do so any comparison is meaningless.
According to the S2000 manual the vehicle takes 5.1 quarts, likely more with your setup. My F150 takes 7 quarts. Since I buy oil on sale, those 7 quarts are pretty cheap (about 3/4's quart stays in every other change since I change the filter every other change).
The oil consumption, I don't know if that's meaningless since I don't know naturally aspirated S2000 oil consumption rates with shelf brands verses Amsoil. Shelf brand synthetics have not resulted in any meaningful oil consumption with my supercharger (not measurable at the dip stick). How much of your oil consumption is due to Amsoil, 30000+ mile OCIs or sloppy engine tolerances... I don't have that data.
Quote:
And I didn't give you my actual costs, but the current costs. I have actually paid significantly less than $25 per 5000 miles over the years since prices were much lower in the past.
I believe most people paid significantly lower prices when oil prices were lower in the past, including myself.
Quote:
I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions. Great. I'll take that wager. How much you wanna bet? If you searched long enough you will find that no off-the-shelf oil comes close to holding TBN as well as Amsoil. None. And if you're comparing it to Mobil 1, I can tell you it isn't nearly as shear stable. I can dig up hundreds of UOAs showing that it shears out of grade in far shorter OCIs.
The UOAs are meaningless with adding nearly double the oil over the life of the OCI. Apples to apples, the wager would require me draining out 90% of the oil and replacing it with fresh oil the UOAs in order to mimic your oil burner with my non-oil burner. At what mileage interval was the last batch of fresh oil added to your Honda?
Another apples to apples comparison would be for you to run shelf brand in the S2000, change it at equal cost intervals and do a UOA comparisons based on that. Cost to cost I doubt you're going to see better UOAs.
Quote:
You sound convinced that you're saving money. Great. Whatever makes you feel happy. But comparing your costs on your car with my costs and implying I'm spending more with my setup is very misleading.
Isn't any implication that Amsoil is good for a 35000 OCI when almost all the oil has been replaced also very misleading?
Quote:
And if you get any UOAs done, don't forget to add that to your total cost.
So far my UOA costs are minuscule ($0) because I get them for free. I wouldn't pay for one. For the most part they seem to be for bragging rights and "feel" good factor, as are boutique oils. What my UOAs have shown me is that I don't need UOAs.
Quote:
And I'll gladly bet that my engine will last longer than yours.
That's an entirely different debate, based on how its used, whether or not one considers burning so much oil is a good indicator of lasting quality, how the vehicle is maintained and a variety of other factors since oil related failures are rare when using correct spec'd synthetic or conventional oils.
Gee, that's nice but you're comparing apples to oranges. You don't have my car, so you can't compare your costs to mine. You apparently have a smaller sump and don't consume as much oil as I do so any comparison is meaningless.
According to the S2000 manual the vehicle takes 5.1 quarts, likely more with your setup. My F150 takes 7 quarts. Since I buy oil on sale, those 7 quarts are pretty cheap (about 3/4's quart stays in every other change since I change the filter every other change).
The oil consumption, I don't know if that's meaningless since I don't know naturally aspirated S2000 oil consumption rates with shelf brands verses Amsoil. Shelf brand synthetics have not resulted in any meaningful oil consumption with my supercharger (not measurable at the dip stick). How much of your oil consumption is due to Amsoil, 30000+ mile OCIs or sloppy engine tolerances... I don't have that data.
Quote:
And I didn't give you my actual costs, but the current costs. I have actually paid significantly less than $25 per 5000 miles over the years since prices were much lower in the past.
I believe most people paid significantly lower prices when oil prices were lower in the past, including myself.
Quote:
I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions. Great. I'll take that wager. How much you wanna bet? If you searched long enough you will find that no off-the-shelf oil comes close to holding TBN as well as Amsoil. None. And if you're comparing it to Mobil 1, I can tell you it isn't nearly as shear stable. I can dig up hundreds of UOAs showing that it shears out of grade in far shorter OCIs.
The UOAs are meaningless with adding nearly double the oil over the life of the OCI. Apples to apples, the wager would require me draining out 90% of the oil and replacing it with fresh oil the UOAs in order to mimic your oil burner with my non-oil burner. At what mileage interval was the last batch of fresh oil added to your Honda?
Another apples to apples comparison would be for you to run shelf brand in the S2000, change it at equal cost intervals and do a UOA comparisons based on that. Cost to cost I doubt you're going to see better UOAs.
Quote:
You sound convinced that you're saving money. Great. Whatever makes you feel happy. But comparing your costs on your car with my costs and implying I'm spending more with my setup is very misleading.
Isn't any implication that Amsoil is good for a 35000 OCI when almost all the oil has been replaced also very misleading?
Quote:
And if you get any UOAs done, don't forget to add that to your total cost.
So far my UOA costs are minuscule ($0) because I get them for free. I wouldn't pay for one. For the most part they seem to be for bragging rights and "feel" good factor, as are boutique oils. What my UOAs have shown me is that I don't need UOAs.
Quote:
And I'll gladly bet that my engine will last longer than yours.
That's an entirely different debate, based on how its used, whether or not one considers burning so much oil is a good indicator of lasting quality, how the vehicle is maintained and a variety of other factors since oil related failures are rare when using correct spec'd synthetic or conventional oils.
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Thank goodness they all don't burn that much oil!
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Thank goodness they all don't burn that much oil!
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Well, in 35k miles you would have done more full oil changes than he did make up. At 7500 miles the TBN might be on par, but that's more of a time line/service profile matter so it's hard to compare if the mile accumulation isn't comparable. It tends to balance out with oxidation/nitration in that when TBN isn't challenged, the oxidation tends to be the limiting factor.
There's currently no reason for him to change this oil. It's totally suitable for continued use. It would be nice to see an OA sample of the same fill. It would fill in the gaps in testing with the oxi/nit numbers. I would suspect that TAN is at an acceptable level. When it creeps up too high you usually see some uptick in metals due to etching. This shows none.
There's currently no reason for him to change this oil. It's totally suitable for continued use. It would be nice to see an OA sample of the same fill. It would fill in the gaps in testing with the oxi/nit numbers. I would suspect that TAN is at an acceptable level. When it creeps up too high you usually see some uptick in metals due to etching. This shows none.
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
Originally Posted By: slalom44
Gee, that's nice but you're comparing apples to oranges. You don't have my car, so you can't compare your costs to mine. You apparently have a smaller sump and don't consume as much oil as I do so any comparison is meaningless.
According to the S2000 manual the vehicle takes 5.1 quarts, likely more with your setup. My F150 takes 7 quarts. Since I buy oil on sale, those 7 quarts are pretty cheap (about 3/4's quart stays in every other change since I change the filter every other change).
The oil consumption, I don't know if that's meaningless since I don't know naturally aspirated S2000 oil consumption rates with shelf brands verses Amsoil. Shelf brand synthetics have not resulted in any meaningful oil consumption with my supercharger (not measurable at the dip stick). How much of your oil consumption is due to Amsoil, 30000+ mile OCIs or sloppy engine tolerances... I don't have that data.
Quote:
And I didn't give you my actual costs, but the current costs. I have actually paid significantly less than $25 per 5000 miles over the years since prices were much lower in the past.
I believe most people paid significantly lower prices when oil prices were lower in the past, including myself.
Quote:
I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions. Great. I'll take that wager. How much you wanna bet? If you searched long enough you will find that no off-the-shelf oil comes close to holding TBN as well as Amsoil. None. And if you're comparing it to Mobil 1, I can tell you it isn't nearly as shear stable. I can dig up hundreds of UOAs showing that it shears out of grade in far shorter OCIs.
The UOAs are meaningless with adding nearly double the oil over the life of the OCI. Apples to apples, the wager would require me draining out 90% of the oil and replacing it with fresh oil the UOAs in order to mimic your oil burner with my non-oil burner. At what mileage interval was the last batch of fresh oil added to your Honda?
Another apples to apples comparison would be for you to run shelf brand in the S2000, change it at equal cost intervals and do a UOA comparisons based on that. Cost to cost I doubt you're going to see better UOAs.
Quote:
You sound convinced that you're saving money. Great. Whatever makes you feel happy. But comparing your costs on your car with my costs and implying I'm spending more with my setup is very misleading.
Isn't any implication that Amsoil is good for a 35000 OCI when almost all the oil has been replaced also very misleading?
Quote:
And if you get any UOAs done, don't forget to add that to your total cost.
So far my UOA costs are minuscule ($0) because I get them for free. I wouldn't pay for one. For the most part they seem to be for bragging rights and "feel" good factor, as are boutique oils. What my UOAs have shown me is that I don't need UOAs.
Quote:
And I'll gladly bet that my engine will last longer than yours.
That's an entirely different debate, based on how its used, whether or not one considers burning so much oil is a good indicator of lasting quality, how the vehicle is maintained and a variety of other factors since oil related failures are rare when using correct spec'd synthetic or conventional oils.
Amsoil is also an off-the-shelf oil. I can go to Canadian Tire and buy some Amsoil...right next to RedLine actually... You are buying WAY too much into the BITOG-forum members that *think* they "get-it-but-don't" mantra.
Originally Posted By: slalom44
Gee, that's nice but you're comparing apples to oranges. You don't have my car, so you can't compare your costs to mine. You apparently have a smaller sump and don't consume as much oil as I do so any comparison is meaningless.
According to the S2000 manual the vehicle takes 5.1 quarts, likely more with your setup. My F150 takes 7 quarts. Since I buy oil on sale, those 7 quarts are pretty cheap (about 3/4's quart stays in every other change since I change the filter every other change).
The oil consumption, I don't know if that's meaningless since I don't know naturally aspirated S2000 oil consumption rates with shelf brands verses Amsoil. Shelf brand synthetics have not resulted in any meaningful oil consumption with my supercharger (not measurable at the dip stick). How much of your oil consumption is due to Amsoil, 30000+ mile OCIs or sloppy engine tolerances... I don't have that data.
Quote:
And I didn't give you my actual costs, but the current costs. I have actually paid significantly less than $25 per 5000 miles over the years since prices were much lower in the past.
I believe most people paid significantly lower prices when oil prices were lower in the past, including myself.
Quote:
I'd wager he'd see similar results with a high OCI off-the-shelf synthetic etc. using the same pre-lube setup under the same driving conditions. Great. I'll take that wager. How much you wanna bet? If you searched long enough you will find that no off-the-shelf oil comes close to holding TBN as well as Amsoil. None. And if you're comparing it to Mobil 1, I can tell you it isn't nearly as shear stable. I can dig up hundreds of UOAs showing that it shears out of grade in far shorter OCIs.
The UOAs are meaningless with adding nearly double the oil over the life of the OCI. Apples to apples, the wager would require me draining out 90% of the oil and replacing it with fresh oil the UOAs in order to mimic your oil burner with my non-oil burner. At what mileage interval was the last batch of fresh oil added to your Honda?
Another apples to apples comparison would be for you to run shelf brand in the S2000, change it at equal cost intervals and do a UOA comparisons based on that. Cost to cost I doubt you're going to see better UOAs.
Quote:
You sound convinced that you're saving money. Great. Whatever makes you feel happy. But comparing your costs on your car with my costs and implying I'm spending more with my setup is very misleading.
Isn't any implication that Amsoil is good for a 35000 OCI when almost all the oil has been replaced also very misleading?
Quote:
And if you get any UOAs done, don't forget to add that to your total cost.
So far my UOA costs are minuscule ($0) because I get them for free. I wouldn't pay for one. For the most part they seem to be for bragging rights and "feel" good factor, as are boutique oils. What my UOAs have shown me is that I don't need UOAs.
Quote:
And I'll gladly bet that my engine will last longer than yours.
That's an entirely different debate, based on how its used, whether or not one considers burning so much oil is a good indicator of lasting quality, how the vehicle is maintained and a variety of other factors since oil related failures are rare when using correct spec'd synthetic or conventional oils.
Amsoil is also an off-the-shelf oil. I can go to Canadian Tire and buy some Amsoil...right next to RedLine actually... You are buying WAY too much into the BITOG-forum members that *think* they "get-it-but-don't" mantra.
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Thank goodness they all don't burn that much oil!
How is a quart in 8500 miles excessive? If you did a 5k OCI you would not even need to top off.
And comparing a S2000's F20C engine to any other automotive engine is futile. No other street engine has the piston speeds that the F20C does(4965 ft/m). Your F150 only hits 3270 ft/m. Not to mention the F20c has 123.5 HP per liter, highest of any mass produced automobile (I do not count the Ferrari 458 Italia a mass production vehicle, and it has 124.5 HP a liter). And a quart per 8500 miles is good for the F20C, most seem to go through a quart every 4-5k miles.
Still, this is not about make up oil or who can go the longest, it is about engine protection. And this UOA is fantastic for 35k miles, and short of changing you oil every 1000 miles, you could not ask for better engine protection. Absolutely stellar UOA!!!
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Thank goodness they all don't burn that much oil!
How is a quart in 8500 miles excessive? If you did a 5k OCI you would not even need to top off.
And comparing a S2000's F20C engine to any other automotive engine is futile. No other street engine has the piston speeds that the F20C does(4965 ft/m). Your F150 only hits 3270 ft/m. Not to mention the F20c has 123.5 HP per liter, highest of any mass produced automobile (I do not count the Ferrari 458 Italia a mass production vehicle, and it has 124.5 HP a liter). And a quart per 8500 miles is good for the F20C, most seem to go through a quart every 4-5k miles.
Still, this is not about make up oil or who can go the longest, it is about engine protection. And this UOA is fantastic for 35k miles, and short of changing you oil every 1000 miles, you could not ask for better engine protection. Absolutely stellar UOA!!!
Originally Posted By: pcfxer
Amsoil is also an off-the-shelf oil. I can go to Canadian Tire and buy some Amsoil...right next to RedLine actually...
You're spilling hairs. I think most intelligent people know what I mean be shelf brands. Besides, even if those were considered shelf brands they cost nearly twice as much as the others.
Quote:
You are buying WAY too much into the BITOG-forum members that *think* they "get-it-but-don't" mantra.
And you're reading way too much into where you think I get my information from. Debate the issue, not the individual. I've felt this way about over-priced, over-hyped MLM products for a long time, long before this site existed. If you cannot provide a case for Amsoil costing less over the long haul...
Amsoil is also an off-the-shelf oil. I can go to Canadian Tire and buy some Amsoil...right next to RedLine actually...
You're spilling hairs. I think most intelligent people know what I mean be shelf brands. Besides, even if those were considered shelf brands they cost nearly twice as much as the others.
Quote:
You are buying WAY too much into the BITOG-forum members that *think* they "get-it-but-don't" mantra.
And you're reading way too much into where you think I get my information from. Debate the issue, not the individual. I've felt this way about over-priced, over-hyped MLM products for a long time, long before this site existed. If you cannot provide a case for Amsoil costing less over the long haul...
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Thank goodness they all don't burn that much oil!
How is a quart in 8500 miles excessive? If you did a 5k OCI you would not even need to top off.
Excessive compared to my results with a supercharged engine (ie, much higher cylinder pressures).
Quote:
And comparing a S2000's F20C engine to any other automotive engine is futile. No other street engine has the piston speeds that the F20C does(4965 ft/m). Your F150 only hits 3270 ft/m. Not to mention the F20c has 123.5 HP per liter, highest of any mass produced automobile (I do not count the Ferrari 458 Italia a mass production vehicle, and it has 124.5 HP a liter). And a quart per 8500 miles is good for the F20C, most seem to go through a quart every 4-5k miles.
There is more to the equation than piston speeds. Besides... that side-steps my position that even in the same vehicle he'd come out spending less money over the long haul with shelf brands. I'm going to bow out of the discussion... if spending more makes him feel better, good for him. Personally, I'd rather sink the $1000 I save over 200,000 on other things. YMMV
A quart every 4-5K miles... not good IMHO.
Quote:
Still, this is not about make up oil or who can go the longest, it is about engine protection. And this UOA is fantastic for 35k miles, and short of changing you oil every 1000 miles, you could not ask for better engine protection. Absolutely stellar UOA!!!
It is also about economics. You can get fantastic protection with shelf synthetic at a longer total cost. And as others have pointed out, the UOA doesn't tell the story due to the number of quarts added.
Originally Posted By: ftsservice
Originally Posted By: oliveoil
It's the environment!! Ya don't get it. If all cars used this little oil...?
Thank goodness they all don't burn that much oil!
How is a quart in 8500 miles excessive? If you did a 5k OCI you would not even need to top off.
Excessive compared to my results with a supercharged engine (ie, much higher cylinder pressures).
Quote:
And comparing a S2000's F20C engine to any other automotive engine is futile. No other street engine has the piston speeds that the F20C does(4965 ft/m). Your F150 only hits 3270 ft/m. Not to mention the F20c has 123.5 HP per liter, highest of any mass produced automobile (I do not count the Ferrari 458 Italia a mass production vehicle, and it has 124.5 HP a liter). And a quart per 8500 miles is good for the F20C, most seem to go through a quart every 4-5k miles.
There is more to the equation than piston speeds. Besides... that side-steps my position that even in the same vehicle he'd come out spending less money over the long haul with shelf brands. I'm going to bow out of the discussion... if spending more makes him feel better, good for him. Personally, I'd rather sink the $1000 I save over 200,000 on other things. YMMV
A quart every 4-5K miles... not good IMHO.
Quote:
Still, this is not about make up oil or who can go the longest, it is about engine protection. And this UOA is fantastic for 35k miles, and short of changing you oil every 1000 miles, you could not ask for better engine protection. Absolutely stellar UOA!!!
It is also about economics. You can get fantastic protection with shelf synthetic at a longer total cost. And as others have pointed out, the UOA doesn't tell the story due to the number of quarts added.
I just had to dig this report back up. Looks outstanding to me! Makes me want to put a by-pass system on one of my cars, just nothing I drive sees over 8 or 9K a year. I might look into getting a system for my CAT tractor since it has a very small 3 quart sump and change the oil and filter as recommended and the by-pass when it stops getting warm.
Slalom44, how much longer til your next OCI?
Slalom44, how much longer til your next OCI?
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