02 BMW M56 (2.5l) 10K, BMW HP 5W30

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I wasn't sure if I put in Mobil 1 or BMW 5w30 (I swore I thought it was BMW 5w30), but according to Blackstone it was Mobil 1 5w30.

Anyway, lead is up and there are traces of moisture and fuel in the oil:

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Can anyone help me interpret this? The engine was at operating temperature when the sample was taken.

- Anthony

[ May 11, 2006, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
Can't help on the sample but Mobil 1 5w30 is not approved for that engine. Mobil 1 0w40, Castrol Syntec 0w30, Lubro Moly 5w30 and BMW 5w30 are.
 
Yeah I know... After I put it in, I realized it was only ACEA A1 and not A3.

All the other times it has been with BMW 5w30 and that's what went in just now at 80k miles. I could have sworn I put the Mobil1 in at the 60k oil change and not the 70k, but if they say it's mobil1 I guess I have to believe them.

- Anthony
 
How is the lab going to know what brand you used???? I thought this was impossible....probably an error
 
Dr. T,

They can sometimes match an oil based on the signature pattern of its additives.
If there's NOTHING ELSE that could turn out 108 Moly, 25 Boron, 2458 Calcium, 9 Magnesium, 674 Phosphorous and 800 Zinc... then you might have your answer.
 
I wouldn't be too concerned. The lead wear is only 0.7 ppm/1K miles. Yes, it's higher than what it should be, and that may be a function of the thinner M1 vs. BMW's A3-rated oil.

FWIW, I have a '95 M50 that puts out 0.3-0.4 ppm/1K miles of lead with most oils. On one run with Syntec Blend 10W40, the lead wear jumped to nearly 0.7. On my '97 M52, lead wear hovers around 0.1 ppm/1K miles. So lead wear differs by individual engine and can be impacted by oil and operating conditions.

If you're really worried, change out the oil you have in there at 5K or 7K miles and send in a sample for a recheck. You didn't post whether you have other UOAs on this engine or not, but I like to get some baseline data before rushing to judgment.

BTW, your silicon level is high. Are you running an aftermarket air filter? My engines rarely exceed 3-4 ppm silicon. Also, I'd be a little concerned about the 1.5% fuel in your oil sample. BMWs tend to run rich during cold start, but the fuel should burn off with extended driving. Norm should be less than 1%; ideally, less than 0.5% I'd check the condition of your spark plugs and see if there's anything suspicious.

Finally, consider enlisting Terry Dyson for his expertise. I've been a customer for two years now, and his help has been invaluable.
 
Thanks for the insight.

This is the first UOA on this engine. I changed the air filter when I did this last oil change at 80k miles. I am and have always been using BMW oil filters also.

The silicon is listed at 4 and the universal average is listed at 7 - how is that high?

As for the fuel, yeah, don't know why that was like that. I did the spark plugs at 60k miles with Bosch Platinum +4s - I doubt they could be bad already.

- Anthony
 
Sorry, my mistake on the silicon. I must have been looking at another element. Are the +4s working out for you? Mike Miller who does the Tech Talk column for the BMW Car Club of America Magazine doesn't think too highly of them because of the shrouded electrode. Since BMWs tend to run rich on cold start, he thinks the electrode gets wet and has a harder time cleaning itself than with recommended plugs.
 
Is it just me? The lead does not look high to me. Did Blackstone notice that this was a 10,000 mile run. Therefore, the lead does not look unreasonable. The moly content of this oil looks too high for M1. The only other explaination would be that there was some residual moly from high moly oil you were using.
 
adg44,

I agree with SSDude,
I do not think the Lead is all that high,
when you do another Used Oil Analysis, you may get a better feel for how this engine will wear,
I did notice this oil thickened into a 40 weight, not a big deal, I have seen other BMW engines thicken oils to,
do a search for your car and engine in this forum if you haven't already,
you may get a feel for how this engine wears, etc.,
good luck!

Bill
 
This type of chemical bearing wear is more a result of fuel contamination than oil viscosity. However if this is the amount of fuel you can expect to see, a significantly thicker 5w-40 or 10w-40 synthetic will help. I'd look for something with a high temp/high shear - HT/HS - viscosity of at least 4.0 Cp @ 150C.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
This type of chemical bearing wear is more a result of fuel contamination than oil viscosity. However if this is the amount of fuel you can expect to see, a significantly thicker 5w-40 or 10w-40 synthetic will help. I'd look for something with a high temp/high shear - HT/HS - viscosity of at least 4.0 Cp @ 150C.

offtopic.gif


Too Slick,

It is great to see your post. Your comments are always insightful.
 
quote:

Originally posted by nel:
Sorry, my mistake on the silicon. I must have been looking at another element. Are the +4s working out for you? Mike Miller who does the Tech Talk column for the BMW Car Club of America Magazine doesn't think too highly of them because of the shrouded electrode. Since BMWs tend to run rich on cold start, he thinks the electrode gets wet and has a harder time cleaning itself than with recommended plugs.

They've been in there for 20k miles and haven't noticed a problem at all. The factory lugs were Bosch with 4 "prongs" on them, so I figured there probably wasn't much of a difference between those for $19 a piece compared to the +4s which were about $6 a plug. Mine did not come with NGK plugs from the factory.

Even if they won't last as long, at 1/3 of the cost I can change them every 30k miles and still be ahead of the curve.

- Anthony
 
quote:

Originally posted by SSDude:
Is it just me? The lead does not look high to me. Did Blackstone notice that this was a 10,000 mile run. Therefore, the lead does not look unreasonable. The moly content of this oil looks too high for M1. The only other explaination would be that there was some residual moly from high moly oil you were using.

I have been using the BMW 5w30 oil since it was brand new. I changed once to M1 5w30 and then switched back to BMW 5w30. I am pretty **** sure that the last oil change was with BMW 5w30 and not M1 5w30, as I think I did the M1 at 60k miles when I did the spark plugs. Then I realized that it was only ACEA A1 and went back to BMW 5w30 at 70k miles. Maybe blackstone is incorrect.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
This type of chemical bearing wear is more a result of fuel contamination than oil viscosity. However if this is the amount of fuel you can expect to see, a significantly thicker 5w-40 or 10w-40 synthetic will help. I'd look for something with a high temp/high shear - HT/HS - viscosity of at least 4.0 Cp @ 150C.

Thanks, that is good to know. I am not sure why there is some fuel contamination. Maybe the +4s aren't working out too well then. I don't see where else it could be coming from.

I run Lubro-Moly 5w40 in my R32, I may purchase some for the BMW also then.

- Anthony
 
have been using BOSCH +2 & +4's for as many years as they have been on the market, going a minimun of 50thou miles per plug set change and they have worked great for me. I will keep using them!! 98 Suzuki Swift 136+thou miles so far. on third set of +2's right now and still averaging 43+mpg!!! Have had 6 oil samples done going 10thou per change using M1-AMS-GC (1 was 15thou using M1-EP) and all have passed with No fuel contamination.
 
You won't get an argument from me about the Bosch +2, +4's working fine for most cars. However, there are quite a few reports on various BMW forums, and, as I mentioned, in the opinion of a well-known BMW guru that BMWs don't run well with those plugs. The reason given is that BMW tends to calibrate their engines to run richer than most other makes when cold.
 
quote:

Originally posted by nel:
You won't get an argument from me about the Bosch +2, +4's working fine for most cars. However, there are quite a few reports on various BMW forums, and, as I mentioned, in the opinion of a well-known BMW guru that BMWs don't run well with those plugs. The reason given is that BMW tends to calibrate their engines to run richer than most other makes when cold.

There are just as many reports on those forums about the +4s working just as well.

Anyway, we'll see what it says at 90k miles and then decide what to do about oil and plugs.

- Anthony
 
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