01 VW TDI on Amsoil 5w 40 @ 9,889 Miles

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Rex

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Oct 2, 2005
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Indiana
I ran 9,889 miles on the new Amsoil 505.01 5w 40.

This link shows my previous run on the older (non 505.01) blend. The link also shows oil ran up to 20k miles. http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000273

I am VERY disappointed in the Amsoil 505.01 results compared to the older blend. I hope to hear from others experience with the Amsoil 5w 40 505.01 in TDI's.

Below I have listed two columns. First was my previous run with the original 505.00 blend and second column shows current 505.01 blend. Both samples taken at the 10k mile, + or -, mark.
Car now has 183,000 miles.

.............505.00.............505.01
Iron......... 37 ............... 49
Chromium..... 4 ................ 3
Lead......... 9 ................ 15
Copper....... 8 ................ 7
Tin.......... 0 ................ 0
Aluminum..... 9 ................ 8
Nickel....... 0 ................ 0
Silver....... 0 ................ 0
Silicon...... 6 ................ 4
Boron........ 2 ................ 46 ???
Sodium....... 7 ................ 0
Magnesium.... 62................ 28
calcium...... 3105 ............. 2009
Barium....... 0 ................ 0
Phosphorus... 1160 ............. 931
Zinc......... 1397 ............. 1116
Moly......... 2 ................ 1
Titanium..... 0 ................ 0
Vanadium..... 0 ................ 0
Potassium.... 0 ................ 0

Vis @ 100 C.. 15.50............. 13.55
water........ 0 ................ 0
Soot/Solids.. .4 ............... .9
Coolant...... Neg .............. NO

TBN.......... 6.2 .............. 2.7 ???
OXID ........ 12 ............... 17
NITR ........ 15 ............... 19
F-SOOT....... .41 .............. .99

They recommend changing the oil because of low TBN. I will be changing oil tomorrow.

Any suggestions, discussion on results would be helpful.

Again I’m a bit disappointed in the new 505.01 results.

Thanks
 
Your lead is up a bit. TBN is a bit low, yes really low compared to the Ca in the older formula. Viscosity held great.

Other wear is about the same.

Boron is an additive.

Why is your soot up so much? This may account for the Pb and slight Fe increase.
 
Im not sure why soot is a bit elevated either!! I have always purchased from same pump about 95% of time.

Im seriously thinking of putting in 0W 30 Amsoil and not use the 5w 40. I cant believe in 10k miles the TBN broke down so much with this oil.
 
Your TBN is fine for 10K it will go to 12K. Anything under 2 and you should change it. Your soot level is normal, don't worry until you reach 3.0 Your not showing any signs of thicking oil.

The 5-40 is working for you, however, the Series 3000 5-30 or 10-30 diesel oils is what I would run with. You might also start to run year round, a quality fuel conditioner to keep the injectors clean and replace your air filter.
 
LargeCarMan,

Well even if the 5-40 is ok and still working for me, my point is this oil did_not_hold_up like the older 505.00 Amsoil blend.

The new 5-40 505.01 formula looks like it was simply beat down in 10K miles. I went 20K miles on the 505.00 formula!!
 
VW wanted a low sulphated ash oil in 505.01. People want specification compliance. I guess the old saying is "be careful what you ask for".

Amsoil is a bit careful in not claiming this to be a long drain oil. I don't know if I'd recommend an XW-30, seeing how the M1 HD XW-30 (?) didn't seem to do all that great in the recently posted UOA.

I would take a look at the 10W-40 or the 15W-40.
 
The amount of soot in this recent analysis is over two times what you had previously. That alone could account for the difference in Fe levels. The increased bearing wear is likely due to the fact that the current Amsoil 5w-40 has been formulated about 10%-15% thinner than before in order to optimize fuel efficiency. This is an 8 TBN formulation, vs 12 TBN in the original version, hence the lower TBN after 10k miles. No surprise there at all....

The VW 505.01 oils ARE NOT superior to the thicker, CI-4+ diesel oils for older TDI's that do not require the VW 505.01 spec. The primarily application for the Amsoil 5w-40 is the latest European diesels - MB 229.51/BMW LL-04/VW 505.01 that can have diesel particle filters and advanced, three way catalysts. This requires significantly reduced levels of supphated ash, sulphur and phosphorus, which in turn reduces the TBN and the levels of AW additives.

I'd HIGHLY recommend using the Amsoil 10w-40/AMO in your older TDI. It is very similiar to the original Amsoil 5w-40, both in terms of additive chemistry and high/low temp viscosity. Use this oil and you'll get results like you saw the first time around.

Finally, I'd caution you that 95% of what you read on the TDI Forum with regards to lubrication isn't very accurate....

TS
 
Rex, it is possible that you have an injector/injectors malfunctioning and/or a clogged air filter which can lead to more soot.

You might want to get a good injector cleaning additive like Stanadyne or Powerservice.

Another thought is....is the NEW Fuel playing havock on your engine?
 
I use 4oz of PS each tank fill up.

I did notice the soot leval also elevated. Not sure what to think about this. My engine lately has been "revving" up to 50 RPM's when driving under 65MPH. Happens all the time. Not sure if the MAF is going or something else.

Anyway thanks for all the info and now really considering what oil to use.
 
I have just ordered Redline 5w 40.

I hate to give up on Amsoil but the results show that the new 505.01 could not hold up for what Im looking for.

Searching for Redline on this web site, I find excellent results used in the TDI.

10 years with Amsoil. Now a new kid in town. I'll give it a test.
 
"10 years with Amsoil..."

"Car now has 183,000 miles..."

Let's see: you changed to a different oil, spec'ed to a different year vehicle application. You didn't get the exact result you wanted (anticipated?).

Two Amsoil experts suggest that you are not using the best oil for your specific application, and give you three different oils to try.

You change to another brand.

crushedcar.gif


It certainly takes an awful lot to make some people happy, doesn't it?

Cheers!
 
I didnt change to a different oil.. Amsoil forced me into the new spec. If Amsoil still sold the older 505.00 spec I would buy it.

I change to a different brand because Amsoil has no other 5w 40 to offer.

I'll still use Amsoil in my other vehicles. After all its gotten me 265,000 miles on my 6.5 turbo diesel truck and 115,000 miles on my van.

Give me back the old formula for my VW and I'll buy it. But for now.... its something new.
 
Rex,

The RL 5w-40 is nice and thick and I'm sure it will work well. I would have gone with Delvac 1 over RL simply because it's less expensive....

As an aside, the 5w-40 spec isn't chiseled on stone tablets and any 40wt synthetic from 0w-40 to 15w-40 will work fine in this engine.

TS
 
I drive 1 hr to work at 70mph 80% of time and hope the RL with high sheer stability will hold up better than what I had.

As you can tell, I run up 10k pretty fast and so want an oil that can hold up to high rpm's, heat, and with winter coming on, cold start ups.

Also looking for extending out my oci including a 10k sample test.

I hope RL will be my answer.
 
Rex,

All the light duty diesel oils are going the low SAPS route. However since you have an older TDI, I'd just stick with the more robust CI-4+ formulations, any of which will easily allow you to run 10k OCI's.

TS
 
Quote:


VW wanted a low sulphated ash oil in 505.01. People want specification compliance. I guess the old saying is "be careful what you ask for".

Amsoil is a bit careful in not claiming this to be a long drain oil. I don't know if I'd recommend an XW-30, seeing how the M1 HD XW-30 (?) didn't seem to do all that great in the recently posted UOA.

I would take a look at the 10W-40 or the 15W-40.




Pablo,

Do you happen to know what the maximum allowable limit of sulphated ash is for 505.01 oils?
I've never sen this posted anywhere, but I've also never really seen any specifics about 505.01 either.
Thanks!

a4tdi
 
New VW 505.01 (mid SAPS) limits:

sulfated ash < 0.8%
phosphorus between 700-900 ppm
sulphur < 0.2%

The new CJ-4, HDEO spec:

sulfated ash < 1.0%
phosphorus < 1200 ppm
sulphur < 0.3%

I'd say three cylinders may be optimistic...;)

Ted

ps: For these older TDI's, the 12+, TBN Amsoil 10w-40 is probably their best value for year round use in a TDI. For warm climates, I'd even go with the less expensive 15w-40/AME product, which holds up "like a rock", according to the techs at Oil Analyzers.
 
Thanks guys.

As you both probably know, I'm running Delvac 1 in my 2004 TDI. Yes, I know that's not an approved oil for that engine but my UOAs have been excellent nonetheless. I was curious as to the max sulphated ash levels strictly as a comparison between the 505.01 oils (which I consider rather average) and Delvac. Obviously the formulation of the CJ lubricants will make this a non-issue.

Mark
 
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